# A serious question for Sam Stone on Factual Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881 "2021-12-11T12:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1321 "2023-12-14T10:08:28Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > But in my opinion, it has a detrimental effect on the whole P&E forum. > … > And I don’t think the P&E forum is the least enhanced by your presence in it, fighting ignorance notwithstanding. Not to get all ATMB, but y’all could do something about that. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1322 "2023-12-14T12:06:13Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Funny thing is, I kind of like Sam. I actually sometimes have good conversations with him in some threads. So do I. Which is why I attempted a sort of semi-defense of **Sam** earlier, only to get dumped on myself. I guess I tend to be less offended by **Sam** than many others because I engage with him far less often on political subjects than others do, and not at all on topics like Hunter Biden, who I couldn’t care less about one way or the other. Which means that my perspective here may not be as valid as that of others. Still, what bothers me TBH is the nature of **some** of the attacks here. I don’t mean the factually critical ones, which can be taken to be constructive criticism that **Sam** could use to improve his posting style. Constructive criticism seemed to be the tone of the OP that spawned this whole thread. What I mean is this sort of pile-on: > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > So you’re saying he’s simply a moron? Maybe an imbecile? Of course many of us – including myself – have directed meaningless insults like that at other posters, but that’s when we’ve totally written them off, not when trying to be constructive. That comment is particularly ironic in the context of talking about bad cites since @Aspenglow made no such statement or implication; she was criticizing **Sam** ’s propensity to lie and post bad cites in support of his politically extreme views, and expressing frustration by it all. Nothing was said or implied about lack of intelligence. **Sam** is not a “moron”; he’s obviously an intelligent poster who’s knowledgeable in many technical areas. So in the spirit of trying to be constructive, let me posit what I think has triggered this onslaught of pitting. I think it’s the confluence of two different things that unfortunately reinforce each other: 1. **Sam** is so far to the right on the political spectrum that you need a telescope to see him. He’s not just far-right by the standards of Canadian politics, he seems to be constantly and unabashedly defending Republicans, even when they’re spouting utter lunacy. 2. **Sam** does have a propensity to post cites without vetting them. Numerous examples have been cited here. Having just recently wasted time watching a video that **Sam** linked that absolutely did not show what he claimed it did, and in fact the video ended with quite the opposite conclusion, I have to agree with this. He clearly had not watched it. And it had nothing to do with politics. I don’t think much can be done about point #1, or at least it’s a very heavy lift, but I hope that **Sam** takes #2 to heart and is more careful with his cites and his facts. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@Aspenglow](#): > > > > And I don’t think the P&E forum is the least enhanced by your presence in it, fighting ignorance notwithstanding. > > Not to get all ATMB, but y’all could do something about that. Maybe it’s just me, but I’d rather see rehabilitation than ostracism. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1323 "2023-12-14T12:12:01Z")
But the whole purpose of this board is fighting ignorance, and that means you, you smug self-righteous asshole. Go shit somewhere else. I think you’d like r/conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1324 "2023-12-14T12:14:29Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > **Sam** is not a “moron”; he’s obviously an intelligent poster who’s knowledgeable in many technical areas. Sam has been lying and posting bad cites for so long, and has had it carefully and politely (and rudely) explained to him **so many times** , that you’re gonna have to come down on the side of either stupidity or malice. And I agree with you that he is not stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1325 "2023-12-14T12:31:31Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Sam has been lying and posting bad cites for so long, and has had it carefully and politely (and rudely) explained to him **so many times** , that you’re gonna have to come down on the side of either stupidity or malice. “Delusion” is also an option. Lord knows I’ve encountered many, many right-wingers who were perfectly normal and intelligent people but who have been immersed for so long in their hyperpartisan propaganda bubble that they simply live in a different reality and can’t understand why the rest of us don’t see what they do. Mind you, that wouldn’t explain why Sam keeps repeating debunked lies over and over, unless he genuinely believes that _this_ time they will suddenly be true. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1326 "2023-12-14T12:40:11Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > It’s my opinion, offered many times previously, that if a poster accomplishes everything a deliberate troll would have—derailing discussion so that everything focuses on him, eliciting frustration and ire, providing weak or outright false support—well, that’s a troll. I don’t care if he believes his shitty cites and is a genuine advocate for his beliefs. That’s close enough to troll for me. Exactly! No need to count angels on a pinhead. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1327 "2023-12-14T12:42:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > that wouldn’t explain why Sam keeps repeating debunked lies over and over, Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1328 "2023-12-14T12:45:20Z")
No, it really is you. I know you think it is about your politics, but it really isn’t. If you improved your posting style, in particular when it comes to cites, then you could be one of the most valuable posters on these boards. I bet you won’t. Prove me wrong. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I’ve corrected many errors on this board Narrator: He had not. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1329 "2023-12-14T14:16:39Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I hope that **Sam** takes #2 to heart and is more careful with his cites and his facts. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but I’d rather see rehabilitation than ostracism. Statements like those are invitations to get dumped on. Time and time again, there has been prodding to get him to be more careful with his cites; [here’s one from this very thread, posted back in February.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/608) In order to be rehabilitated, one has to be willing to do so. **Sam** would need an intervention first. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1330 "2023-12-14T14:27:01Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > 1. Stay out of the Pit and ignore the venting; This thread would be long dead if Sam didn’t keep wandering back in to blow on the embers and stoke the flames. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1331 "2023-12-14T14:35:47Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but I’d rather see rehabilitation than ostracism. Sam’s been here for 24 years. Rehabilitation is taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1332 "2023-12-14T14:45:28Z")
We tried to make him go to rehab, but he said… ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1333 "2023-12-14T14:57:58Z")
“I don’t do struggle sessions.” Not as lyrical as Amy Winehouse, but just as big an f-u to the community of which he is a part, and betraying a lousy attitude toward doing a better job at getting to the quote truth of the matter unquote. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1334 "2023-12-14T15:17:16Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > "I don’t do struggle sessions.” This exactly. I couldn’t imagine a bigger fu to our community. “you’re not the boss of me!” Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1335 "2023-12-14T15:29:55Z")
I’ll just quote myself from a little earlier. Many of y’all are twisting yourselves in knots trying to reconcile his behavior with the mindset of a reasonable person. You see a smart guy who’s been around for a long time and say, “but why won’t he engage with this community honestly? He’d be such a great poster if he did that!” And I agree. But he’s much, much easier to understand once you accept that he’s fucking with you here and he’s fucking with you in the other threads. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Change requires external motive force from _somewhere_. This thread isn’t it, because he enjoys the attention. Telling him that he’d be much more likable if he dialed back the trolling doesn’t work because, you know, the fun bit is being disliked. The only way he ever changes is if the mods step in when he lies, but they won’t, because (properly, I think) they don’t police for objective fact in most circumstances. Though I’m definitely changing my mind on that last bit. Maybe he should be modded for lying going forward, because he will never change otherwise. It’s too much fun tweaking your noses and seeing you get up dance for him again and again and again. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1336 "2023-12-14T15:59:19Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > But he’s much, much easier to understand once you accept that he’s fucking with you here and he’s fucking with you in the other threads. This. I used to think that he posted cites without reading them. Now, I am more convinced that he deliberately posts cites that say the opposite, just to troll. There is no way anyone is that stupid to continue to post over and over again cites that actually disprove his own premise. It’s a game. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1337 "2023-12-14T16:26:01Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > There is no way anyone is that stupid to No sentence that has ever begun this way has ever been true. Of course there’s a way people are so stupid that they [X], where you can put in anything for X and have it be true. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but I’d rather see rehabilitation than ostracism. No, it’s not just you! I also would rather see rehabilitation. I also want a pony. The difference between rehabilitation and a pony is that, with a bit of research and a transfer of funds, I know how I can achieve my dream of a pony. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1338 "2023-12-14T16:36:26Z")
Which one would produce more horseshit? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1339 "2023-12-14T16:36:46Z")
I think we all know the answer to that question. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1340 "2023-12-14T16:41:38Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > no way anyone is that stupid How did the old saying go? No one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American public. Or something like that Good thing Sam’s Canadian then, I suppose [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=68)