# A serious question for Sam Stone on Factual Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881 "2021-12-11T12:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1601 "2024-01-13T21:34:38Z")
To be clear, I said that “70% of Biden’s buyers were known to him.” I was corrected that it was buyers of “70% of the value of the paintings”, not 70% of the buyers. I acknowledged that in my next post. It was in fact, a nitpick, but the nitpick was correct and I acknowledged it. What was I supposed to do? Get down on my knees and beg forgiveness? In the meantime, I have had several of my posts creatively interpreted to mean the opposite of what I said, I have corrected numerous factual errors of others, posted abut a hundred cites on demand. I don’t feel the need to run off to the Pit every time someone gets a detail wrong and go NYAH NYAH! LIAR!. Because we are here to fight ignorance, which I would hope means responding to people’s errors with grace. That’s what I try to do, anytway. YMMV. Actually, we’re not all here to fight ignorance. It’s become clear to me that some people are here to fight the right and push the talking points of the left, and they’ll do anythig to achieve that. Ignore arguments, be uncharitable in interpretartion, always pick the weakest points and ignore the strongest, etc. It’s very tedious. I don’t include you in that judgment, btw. Our friend Crowmanyclous, on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1602 "2024-01-13T21:38:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I don’t feel the need to run off to the Pit {…} > Our friend Crowmanyclous, on the other hand… Was sent to this thread by you, > [@Why Aren't People Working? (Personal anecdotes only)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-working-personal-anecdotes-only/995662/313): > > Can we please end this hijack? **You’ve got the pit for this.** ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1603 "2024-01-13T21:43:30Z")
The right and ignorance have become one and the same. You are exhibit A. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1604 "2024-01-13T21:45:36Z")
Sure thing, sparky. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1605 "2024-01-13T22:09:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Pointing to the low unemployment rate and saying that it’s crazy for people to think the economy is bad when unemployment is low is potentially wrong because: I’m actually going to agree with you. Simplifying an issue by pointing to one statistic and concluding that things must be fine is rarely helpful, and that’s especially true where the economy is involved. Now, in **this** case there are many statistics showing a larger picture of a healthy economy, but your overall point is a good one. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1606 "2024-01-13T22:23:48Z")
Thank you. I appreciate that. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1607 "2024-01-13T22:40:29Z")
I don’t give two shits about all these numbers. What I’m curious about is how a thread about PERSONAL ANECDOTES ONLY turned into that fucking mess. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1608 "2024-01-13T22:46:30Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Yes, because they do not meet the currently used definition of unemployed. Surely we should include preschoolers as unemployed too right? The entire point is that how we count unemployment doesn’t cover all parties relevant the discussion in that thread. There is nothing wrong with the definition. But discouraged workers are relevant. The extra retirees are relevant. That doesn’t mean they should be counted as unemployed — nobody said they should. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1609 "2024-01-13T22:53:27Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You’re the one not gettting it. You’re just restating my own point. Let me simplify it for you: > > Pointing to the low unemployment rate and saying that it’s crazy for people to think the economy is bad when unemployment is low is potentially wrong because: > > 1. You can be in a job you hate, can’t find the job you want, and still be employed. When there are major sectoral shifts in the economy such as the Covid lockdowns, there could be a lot of this, and it’s hard to see. > > 2. You can be so discouraged about finding a job you drop out, and thus are no longer ‘unemployed’. > > 3. You could be settling for gig work or other ‘underemployment’, not be happy, and not show up in the unemployment statistics. > > 4. You can be retired, but not happy about it. > > None of those people show up as ‘unemployed’, but all might consider the economy to be bad in their personal circumstances. > > THAT’S IT. You’re the one creatively running around looking for a ‘gotcha’. > > By the way, these were the standard arguments of the left not long ago when people on the right would say that the economy is good because there is low unemployment. This is not controversial. Why in the ever loving fuck would anyone ever expect “people who are working but hate their jobs” to be counted as unemployed? I mean, if you want to manipulate unemployment statistics so you can claim 50% of Americans are unemployed under Joe Biden, that would be one way to do it. You could also count everyone that makes less than 100K a year as “unemployed”, or count working women as “unemployed” and that would make just about as much sense. And your anecdotal experience does not match up with mine. For the first time ever, ALL the twenty-something youth in my life are fully employed in real, career related jobs. This is a great relief to me, after years of watching them struggle through gig work and crappy retail / food service jobs during the Trump years. Of course, this leads to job shortages in retail and food service jobs, especially the crappy paying ones, but that may be because the job vacancies settle to the bottom……high level employees retired or died of COVID, the people under them get promoted up a level and my niece gets an entry level engineering job and doesn’t have to work at a fast food restaurant anymore. The years of Republican jobs jobs jobs policies are coming back to bite employers in the ass, because the bottom line is that if they want good workers, they need to pay better. Business owners have to take long term accountability for their decisions in the same way that individuals do, and if they can’t deal with changing environments and manage to stay in business, it sucks to be them. They need to take accountability for their bad decisions and quit blaming the government and employees and those mythical kids that don’t want to work. If they weren’t smart enough to operate a successful business, then they can get a job themselves. I hear McDonalds is hiring. And whenever Republicans decide that job shortages in fast food or food processing or agriculture are a big enough problem, I know where they can find plenty of people begging to work those jobs. But they’d rather pay $20 for an apple, as long as they can blame Joe Biden. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1610 "2024-01-13T23:08:46Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > nobody said they should. I guess someone complaining that “people leaving the job market retire or don’t look for work, they aren’t counted as ‘unemployed’” somehow doesn’t mean that someone means that they _should be counted_ as unemployed, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1611 "2024-01-13T23:25:12Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Why in the ever loving fuck would anyone ever expect “people who are working but hate their jobs” to be counted as unemployed? That’s a good question! Who would? I sure wouldn’t. And that’s why I didn’t say it. Is this the point where I’m supposed to call you a liar for claiming I said something I didn’t? It’s so hard to keep track of the rules around this stuff. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I mean, if you want to manipulate unemployment statistics so you can claim 50% of Americans are unemployed under Joe Biden, that would be one way to do it. You could also count everyone that makes less than 100K a year as “unemployed”, Oh, I know the rules for this one! Cite that I said 50% of Americans are unemployed under Joe Biden. Or retract what you said and apologize. There, did I get it right? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1612 "2024-01-13T23:27:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > All this was in service of the idea that the perception of the economy as bad is not necessarily reflected in the unemployment statistics. However, that was not what the thread was about. The thread got hijacked by someone wanting to discuss the idea that the perception of the economy as bad is not necessarily reflected in the employment statistics. The thread was about “why aren’t people working?” And we’ve discovered that, in fact, people ARE working. Just not working as much for shitty managers or shitty jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1613 "2024-01-13T23:34:44Z")
Bite me, you reading impaired asshole. I’m not engaging with you. Fuck your Feelings. Go away. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1614 "2024-01-13T23:36:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The thread was about “why aren’t people working?” And we’ve discovered that, in fact, people ARE working. **Just not working as much for shitty managers or shitty jobs.** Where’s the evidence that it’s ‘shitty managers and shitty jobs’? The people I mentioned make over $100K per year, in government. Doesn’t get much cushier than that. I mean, there are always shitty managers and shitty jobs. Is it different now? I saw people just declare that this must be the reason, but in an anecdotal thread did that really crop up as the main reason for people not working? I’ll have to go back and re-read it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1615 "2024-01-13T23:36:37Z")
You’ve got to realize, It’s -40 degrees for him at the moment. Nothing else to do but post stuff to get a reaction. It’s something to do. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1616 "2024-01-13T23:37:37Z")
I’m not the one who just completely misread someone else’s post. But hey, you do you. Haters gotta hate. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1617 "2024-01-13T23:38:09Z")
I didn’t know posting simple economic facts was so triggering. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1618 "2024-01-13T23:38:37Z")
Liars gonna lie. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1619 "2024-01-13T23:41:03Z")
Well, take that up with Ann Hedonia. She’s the one who just made a bunch of untrue statements. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/1620 "2024-01-13T23:42:59Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Where’s the evidence that it’s ‘shitty managers and shitty jobs’? It’s been discussed in the thread. Your anecdote is no more powerful than all the other anecdotes. Yes, people have been declaring it. THE THREAD SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR ANECDOTES! (capital letters for the reading impaired) Yes, it is different now. You apparently did not read or comprehend what Ann Hedonia and countless others have been saying. Things. Are. Different. Now. A large retirement boom has led to an upward movement of workers, resulting in job vacancies in many areas at MANY LEVELS. Others have left the workforce because of Covid knock-on effects on childcare etc. Recent company policies abandoning internal training efforts and focusing on candidates with proven experience and track records have proven to be STUPID. Costs have risen and in many cases,THESE individual business have not caught up in terms of salary. Businesses that don’t figure out that THINGS. HAVE. CHANGED. are going to end up in the trash heap of history. And of course, they’ll blame Biden (or Trudeau if they are in Alberta) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=82)