# A serious question for Sam Stone on Factual Errors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881 "2021-12-11T12:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/161 "2022-09-15T01:09:56Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Oh, and for the record - I hope Trump is guilty of enough that he can never run for office again. Just to forestall the inevitable ‘Maga’ attacks. We don’t believe you. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/162 "2022-09-15T01:13:01Z")
I’m not one to defend Sam, but all the demands that he grovel at our feet are a bit much. Yes, he was grossly, horribly wrong about Durham investigation. Just let it go. Everyone hates a poor loser, but everyone hates a poor winner too. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/163 "2022-09-15T01:41:57Z")
I agree that we shouldn’t expect Sam to grovel. I do hope that Sam uses this episode to reflect. On a board that attracts skeptics, we should all reflect whenever our skepticism leads us down a wrong path. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/164 "2022-09-15T01:58:55Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > We don’t believe you. Then why don’t you go back and read everything I’ve said about Trump in the past? For example, I have repeatedly called him an asshole and (I quote) ‘a stain on the Presidency’. I have never supported Trump. He’s unfit for office, and I said so here repeatedly. Don’t worry - I won’t start a pit thread about you if you were wrong. Some of you are just so enraged by him that you think anyone who has ever disagreed with a Democrat attack on him must be a MAGA fanatic. But news flash: It’s possible to dislike both Joe Biden and Donald Trump at the same time. And it’s possible to support Republicans in general without supporting Trump. It’s even possible to admit that something a politician did was correct without endorsing him personally. That is, if you aren’t a raging partisan living in a bubble. The real world is messy, and sometimes there are only bad choices, If I were American, I’d vote for a reasonable Democrat over a crazy Republican, and vice versa. Against Trump vs Biden, I’d probably abstain. I would have voted for Biden last time most likely, but the last two years have convinced me he’s as bad as Trump. Both are terrible men, divisive, and both lie constantly and easily. And I hope Trump doesn’t run for the same reason Democrats poured millions into MAGA campaigns - Republicans are much more likely to win without Trump than with him. He’s dragging the party down. It’s your side trying to keep MAGA going - while demonizing it. Incredibly cynical of your leaders, but that’s politics these days. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/165 "2022-09-15T02:45:28Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I’m just trying to figure out the rules here. Does being wrong on the SDMB require a pit thread where the person who was wrong on the internet comes in and begs forgiveness from his betters? When you’re being an ass and a hypocrite, yeah. You get a Pit thread. Not just for being wrong. I’m wrong all the time. I’ve never had a Pit thread. You said in your first post here: > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If you want me to respond, you are going to have to point out one of my factual errors. Be specific. > > I do make them, just like everyone else, and unlike many here when I agree that I made an error I own up to it. And yet you haven’t done that. No groveling, just “I guess I was wrong.” You’ve doubled and tripled down here. That’s why this thread is so long. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/166 "2022-09-15T02:56:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > the last two years have convinced me he’s as bad as Trump Biden is as bad as Trump? There just aren’t words… ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/167 "2022-09-15T02:59:35Z")
No, you don’t understand. Sam can’t make a post without calling someone a hypocrite. Watch and read what he writes, it’s a constant drumbeat. Hypocrite, hypocrite, hypocrite. By using this artifice, Biden as bad as Trump, he’s calling _everyone_ a hypocrite. Everyone except Sam Stone. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/168 "2022-09-15T03:07:03Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And I hope Trump doesn’t run for the same reason Democrats poured millions into MAGA campaigns - Republicans are much more likely to win without Trump than with him. He’s dragging the party down. It’s your side trying to keep MAGA going - while demonizing it. Incredibly cynical of your leaders, but that’s politics these days. I really wonder how is it that “our” side is making it likely that more than a few of those MAGAts are going to win in the midterms. You still have to face that a lot of what you support is rotten. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/169 "2022-09-15T03:20:02Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > the last two years have convinced me he’s as bad as Trump Poppycock as usual. > And Biden was incorrect on numerous occasions when ad-libbing about a wide assortment of facts and figures – sometimes in a way that appeared inadvertent, but other times in a way that helped him make a political point. > > Unlike his [uniquely dishonest predecessor](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/), Biden did not bury fact-checkers in a daily avalanche of serial falseness. Biden never came close to making a dozen false claims in a single speech, let alone [five dozen false claims in one address](https://www.thestar.com/news/world/analysis/2019/03/06/60-false-claims-in-2-hours-trumps-cpac-speech-was-by-far-his-most-dishonest-single-event-as-president.html), as Trump once did. In fact, the total number of Biden false claims so far is in the dozens, while Trump delivered [well over 1,000 total false claims](https://www.thestar.com/news/world/analysis/2019/01/25/trumps-first-year-was-the-most-dishonest-in-history-his-second-was-nearly-three-times-worse.html) in his own first year and more than 3,000 the next year. [https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/20/politics/fact-check-biden-false-claims-first-year-2021/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/20/politics/fact-check-biden-false-claims-first-year-2021/index.html) Bottom line: No, Biden has not been as bad as Trump, but more importantly, “our” side in the media does not look the other way when Biden messes up, consider that when a lot of what you get from “friends” on the internet who looks away from reporting what Trump and many republicans did and _ **continues** _ to do. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/170 "2022-09-15T04:32:14Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > “our” side in the media does not look the other way when Biden messes up, consider that when a lot of what you get from “friends” on the internet who looks away from reporting what Trump and many republicans did and _ **continues** _ to do. But that just shows that Biden is so bad that even the far left woke socialist media can’t deny it. Seriously though I wonder what Sam thinks Biden did that was anywhere in the same ballpark as Trump. I guess calling out republicans for denying the legitimacy of the election is just as divisive than the denial itself. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/171 "2022-09-15T04:47:46Z")
**No, you don’t understand. Sam can’t make a post without calling someone a hypocrite. Watch and read what he writes, it’s a constant drumbeat. Hypocrite, hypocrite, hypocrite.** By using this artifice, Biden as bad as Trump, he’s calling _everyone_ a hypocrite. Everyone except Sam Stone. The other theme is that _Sam Stone only speaks in narratives_. Individual facts do not matter, only the narrative. If you defeat any one of his assertions – and he never admits defeat – the narrative continues. Bush didn’t lie about WMD, the left did. The Swift Boat Vets had a point. Hillary and Deep State was spying on Trump. The Hunter Biden Laptop proves you’re all hypocrites. It doesn’t matter if you refute something, it never ends. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/172 "2022-09-15T05:25:00Z")
The funny thing is that me and others did reply to him with the premise that the emails in the Hunter laptop were likely **real**. Of course, noticing that the right wing had made lots of fake bullshit in the past about other **real** emails from climate scientists or Hillary Clinton was not an important clue to Sam. And neither it was that almost all the crap the right wing claimed about the emails had other explanations or was misleading already. Just as other email “scandals” of the past were used by the right wing. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/173 "2022-09-15T05:29:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It seems that way, so I guess I should start a pit thread for every person on here who said inflation wouldn’t be a problem or was ‘transitory’. Then I can start threads for those who said at the start of the Mueller investigation that Trump was going to go to jail pver Russiagate and who treated every leak like it was the Sword of Damocles coming down on Trump. Given that Manafort more or less confirmed the collusion during the campaign, I wouldn’t be starting that pit thread if I were you… ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/174 "2022-09-15T09:54:39Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Then why don’t you go back and read everything I’ve said about Trump in the past? For example, I have repeatedly called him an asshole and (I quote) ‘a stain on the Presidency’. I have never supported Trump. He’s unfit for office, and I said so here repeatedly. > > Don’t worry - I won’t start a pit thread about you if you were wrong. I am perfectly aware of what you have disingenuously said about Trump. I have ZERO doubt that if Trump was running against Father Damien (D) and you were eligible to vote, you would “hold your nose” and vote for the “stain on the presidency” I mean you couldn’t even get through this without equating Biden and Trump, you piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/175 "2022-09-15T12:37:31Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And I hope Trump doesn’t run for the same reason Democrats poured millions into MAGA campaigns - Republicans are much more likely to win without Trump than with him. He’s dragging the party down. It’s your side trying to keep MAGA going - while demonizing it. Not quite. The reason “MAGA” keeps going like a rabid energizer bunny is because of the still-considerable legion of Trump supporters, while most Republican leaders still lack the courage to renounce him and his kind because they’re unwilling to risk short-term pain at the ballot box. Some Democrats are indeed cynically backing Trumpite candidates so there will be weaker G.O.P opposition in the general election. But their efforts would mean little if Republicans got their act together. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/176 "2022-09-15T12:46:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I would have voted for Biden last time most likely, but the last two years have convinced me he’s as bad as Trump. A laughable assertion of a ludicrous counterfactual as if it represents reality is not the compelling defense you evidently believe it to be. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/177 "2022-09-15T13:18:29Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > A laughable assertion of a ludicrous counterfactual as if it represents reality is not the compelling defense you evidently believe it to be. No, it’s merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/178 "2022-09-15T13:28:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Then I can start threads for those who said at the start of the Mueller investigation that Trump was going to go to jail pver Russiagate and who treated every leak like it was the Sword of Damocles coming down on Trump. You’re welcome to do so. And then we could keep pointing out the many, many times you’ve repeated the “Russian collusion hoax” narrative long after it’s been shown to be false, and also that the reason Trump escaped prosecution for the findings of the Mueller investigation is that his corrupt AG blocked that from happening. But if you want another “Oh look - Sam is lying again, and Republicans are massively corrupt” thread, please proceed. > [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Oh, it definitely is, but that was a “Just wait till you see what else Durham has up his sleeve!” feint. Now that Durham is showing empty pockets (pardon the mixed clothing metaphor) “Sleeve pockets”, you say… 🤑 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/179 "2022-09-15T13:50:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It seems that way, so I guess I should start a pit thread for every person on here who said inflation wouldn’t be a problem or was ‘transitory’. Then I can start threads for those who said at the start of the Mueller investigation that Trump was going to go to jail pver Russiagate and who treated every leak like it was the Sword of Damocles coming down on Trump. > > While I’m at it, I guess I should start a thread for those who claimed the Hunter Biden Laptop was Russian disinformation, and for pitting me because I said that while some of the information on it might be, lots of it clearly wasn’t. If you choose to engage in some serious misrepresentations of what was actually said and exaggerate massively for effect, then you may be able to put together a post, but it will be laughed out of the room as being a disingenuous piece of trash, backfire, and then the “mean girls” will point and laugh at you even more. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Then if I still have time I can start one for the people who posted over a thousand fucking comments declaring exactly what Trump had done wrong and what documents he had at Mar-A-Lago _before any information about any documents was released_. And extra mea culpas can be issued by those claiming that he was likely to face the death penalty. Sounds like you’d have plenty of time, as your first “threat” is completely feckless. But so is this one as well. See, here’s the thing, people _do_ make predictions and statements of speculation all the time around here, and that’s fine. But most people don’t double down on them like you do. When a reason why your prediction is shown to be unlikely, you retreat into whining about “mean girls” and refuse to actually address the points that were raised. That’s what gets you pitted, not your predictions, but your immature way of reacting to any disagreement or criticism. **And then** … there is the pitting you for what you imply your desires are. I “predict” that Trump will go to jail because I have seen evidence that implies that he has committed many crimes that should land him in jail before, during, and after his time in office. I “predict” that he will face consequences for them because it helps me to sleep at night to believe that we live in a world where justice will prevail, and that people like him are not above the law. That prediction comes from a place of optimism, maybe unrealistic optimism, but it comes from a place of wanting to see a world where that happens. When you make “predictions” they are not really based on any facts, usually far less fact than the knowledge of Trump’s many crimes, and it demonstrates _your_ optimism, that you are hoping that these “crimes” are prosecuted. You are shown time and time again that the allegations have no merit, and yet you persist in _your_ fantasy of a just world where Durham successfully prosecutes and imprisons the Hillary Clinton campaign. So, your accusations of hypocrisy and “both sides” are feckless and without merit. They are just fantasies that you concoct in order to make you feel as though you are the martyr, the victim of the “mean girls” when all you are trying to do is to speak truth to those who refuse to listen. You do this by making unfounded and unsubstantiated accusations of your own, that have about as much factual basis and chances of holding up under scrutiny as your much lauded Durham investigation has. I don’t get it, I really don’t. Do you think that you are winning internet points with your dishonesty, and what do you think you can spend them on? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881/180 "2022-09-15T15:03:13Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > While I’m at it, I guess I should start a thread for those who claimed the Hunter Biden Laptop was Russian disinformation, and for pitting me because I said that while some of the information on it might be, lots of it clearly wasn’t. You were pitted because you considered (and apparently still do) the bullshit Hunter Biden laptop thing anything but tabloid nonsense. It’s not a story that Hunter had a laptop, it’s not a story that he might have looked at porn, it’s not a story that he used drugs in the past… etc. None of that is a story, and it never was, and we could all see that and explained it to you over and over and over again. The existence of a laptop is not a story and never was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-serious-question-for-sam-stone-on-factual-errors/955881.md?page=10)