# A short and simple baseball question
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875
**Category:** The Game Room
**Created:** [May 23, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875 "2012-05-23T20:32:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875/1 "2012-05-23T20:32:46Z")
What constitutes a save situation?
I always thought as long as you’re winning and a guy pitches the ninth who isn’t a starter (no complete games/no hitters etc.) that it was a save…but I’m apparently wrong.
What are the rules for that?
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### Author:  [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_Johnny_Gentle)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875/2 "2012-05-23T20:45:33Z")
[QUOTE=MLB Rule 10.19]
The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:
(a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;
(b) He is not the winning pitcher;
(c) He is credited with at least a third of an inning pitched; and
(d) He satisfies one of the following conditions:
(1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning;
(2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or
(3) He pitches for at least three innings.
[/QUOTE]
Conditions (d)(1) and (d)(2) are most commonly invoked. Condition (d)(2) is the one I hear quoted the most, in part because many save situations can be either (d)(1) or (d)(2), as the closer will often enter a 1 or 2 run game at the start of the 9th, which will meet both criteria, assuming that the tying run isn’t allowed to score.
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### Author:  [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875/3 "2012-05-24T12:36:23Z")
The primary difference between the rules and your understanding, Sir T, is that a pitcher who finishes a game that his team is winning by a lot does not get a save, unless he pitches the last 3 innings.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875/4 "2012-05-24T14:43:24Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#):
>
> The primary difference between the rules and your understanding, Sir T, is that a pitcher who finishes a game that his team is winning by a lot does not get a save, unless he pitches the last 3 innings.
Exactly. The “three-run lead / three innings” part of the save rule means that the pitcher has to either (a) finish the game when the score is close enough that pitching effectively is particularly important, or (b) pitch long enough that, even if he comes in with a big lead, if he weren’t effective, he could give up the lead.
I have to imagine that the (d)(3) variety of saves is pretty rare, given how modern managers use relief pitchers.
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### Author:  [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875/5 "2012-05-24T14:48:28Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> I have to imagine that the (d)(3) variety of saves is pretty rare, given how modern managers use relief pitchers.
You would be correct.
Number of three-inning-variety saves from [here](http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/5/25/2189598/mlb-three-inning-save-scott-atchison-terry-francona-tony-la-russa-) (an early-2011 article):
```auto
2001: 35
2002: 26
2003: 31
2004: 20
2005: 14
2006: 15
2007: 16
2008: 16
2009: 13
2010: 4
2011: 1
```
Some prior history from the same article:
> [@](#):
>
> Three-inning saves began a precipitous decline; 110 in 1988, 90 in 1990, 52 in 1992 and 42 in 1993, as GM’s and managers began to acquire and use pitchers in the Eckersley mode.
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### Author:  [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875/6 "2012-05-24T16:49:05Z")
This is the best 3-inning save of all time:
> **[Texas Rangers vs Baltimore Orioles Box Score: August 22, 2007 |...](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL200708221.shtml)**
>
> Texas Rangers beat Baltimore Orioles (30-3). Aug 22, 2007, Attendance: Not Given, Time of Game: 3:21. Visit Baseball-Reference.com for the complete box score, play-by-play, and win probability
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### Author:  [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875/7 "2012-05-24T16:54:00Z")
That’s awesome. I love Brian Burres’ line … 8 earned runs allowed in 2/3 of an inning pitched. I think _he_ was the one that needed saving.
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### Author:  [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875/8 "2012-05-24T16:58:38Z")
There are many things that are awesome about that box score, one of which is Paul Shuey’s 2 inning, 9 ER performance not moving the WPA needle even 0.001 since they were down 21-3 at the time.
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### Author:  [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875/9 "2012-05-24T17:02:23Z")
Wow! Nice cite \*\*Jas09! \*\*I knew the 3 inning save was uncommon these days but those stats really illustrate that fact.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_the\_Turtle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_the_Turtle)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875/10 "2012-05-24T18:08:59Z")
The greatest save I remeber was this one\*:
> **[Cleveland Indians vs Chicago White Sox Box Score: June 19, 1991 |...](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA199106190.shtml)**
>
> Cleveland Indians beat Chicago White Sox (4-3). Jun 19, 1991, Attendance: 34666, Time of Game: 2:39. Visit Baseball-Reference.com for the complete box score, play-by-play, and win probability
Rod Nichols (Cleveland Indians) started the 6th inning of a one run game and proceded to pitch 4 innings of 2 hit, shutout baseball.
- And the only reason I remember it was because I had him on my roto team
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### Author:  [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-short-and-simple-baseball-question/622875/11 "2012-05-24T19:00:12Z")
I seem to recall that part (a) of the rule was not always the case, and that, if two or more pitchers “qualified” for a save, it was up to the official scorer to make the decision (rule 10.17(b) still says that the Official Scorer decides who is the winning pitcher is if the winning team’s starter was pitching when the team took the lead for good but he didn’t pitch at least five innings).