# A simple question for Trump supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 3, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213 "2019-10-03T17:21:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/261 "2019-10-09T17:11:50Z")
@ **Kearsen1** — [Read this article](https://www.nj.com/opinion/2019/10/did-we-betray-the-kurds-for-trump-towers-editorial.html), come back and tell us what you think. @ **octopus** — How do you like the Dallas Cowboys this season? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/262 "2019-10-09T17:49:37Z")
With this post I hope to engage Trump supporters in honest dialog. Comment on the link in the preceding post, and the link below. _Honestly read them_ — don’t just Google “Why does Sean Hannity hate The Atlantic magazine?” and think that tells you all you need to know. **And let’s be very clear** : _Anyone who is not enthusiastically supporting any alternative to Trump is a “Trump supporter.”_ Even if the alternative is a “democratic socialist”, or [gasp!] someone who wants to make it harder for lunatics to own AR-15s. The recent treacherous abandonment of the Kurds flabbergasts those of us who actually study geopolitics. But even before this, [an article in The Atlantic tells us what a large number of top generals think about Trump.](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/11/military-officers-trump/598360/) Read the whole article; I’ll just give brief excerpts here. > [@](#): > > In 20 years of writing about the military, I have never heard officers in high positions express such alarm about a president. Trump’s pronouncements and orders have already risked catastrophic and unnecessary wars in the Middle East and Asia, and have created severe problems for field commanders engaged in combat operations. Frequently caught unawares by Trump’s statements, senior military officers have scrambled, in their aftermath, to steer the country away from tragedy. How many times can they successfully do that before faltering? > > Amid threats spanning the globe, from nuclear proliferation to mined tankers in the Persian Gulf to terrorist attacks and cyberwarfare, those in command positions monitor the president’s Twitter feed like field officers scanning the horizon for enemy troop movements. A new front line in national defense has become the White House Situation Room, where the military struggles to accommodate a commander in chief who is both ignorant and capricious… > > He threatened North Korea with “fire and fury” …—then he pivoted to friendly summits with Kim Jong Un, with whom he announced he was “in love”; canceled long-standing U.S. military exercises with South Korea; and dangled the possibility of withdrawing American forces from the country altogether… > > The generals I spoke with didn’t agree on everything, but they shared the following five characterizations of Trump’s military leadership. > > I. HE DISDAINS EXPERTISE > > Trump has little interest in the details of policy. He makes up his mind about a thing, and those who disagree with him—even those with manifestly more knowledge and experience—are stupid, or slow, or crazy… > > II. HE TRUSTS ONLY HIS OWN INSTINCTS > > Trump believes that his gut feelings about things are excellent, if not genius. Those around him encourage that belief, or they are fired… > > III. HE RESISTS COHERENT STRATEGY > > If there is any broad logic to Trump’s behavior, it’s Keep ’em confused. He believes that unpredictability itself is a virtue. > > Keeping an enemy off-balance can be a good thing, the generals agreed, so long as you are not off-balance yourself. And it’s a tactic, not a strategy. Consider Trump’s rhetorical dance with the North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un… > > IV. “HE IS REFLEXIVELY CONTRARY” > > General H. R. McMaster, … is about as can-do a professional as you will find. He appeared to take Trump seriously, and tailored his briefings to accommodate the president’s famous impatience, in order to equip him for the weighty decisions the office demands… the president let it be known that he found McMaster’s briefings tedious and the man himself “gruff and condescending.” > > Distrusting expertise, Trump has contradicted and disparaged the intelligence community and presided over a dismantling of the State Department. > > V. HE HAS A SIMPLISTIC AND ANTIQUATED NOTION OF SOLDIERING Learn something about the man you vote for. Then our conversations here can be more intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/263 "2019-10-09T17:56:34Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > If you are referring to me I’m afraid you’ve badly misread my message. I wasn’t posting out of anger, or anything like that, just wondering why you only seem concerned about how Trump supporters or conservatives are treated here. I was simply pointing out that this board isn’t the entirety of existence, online or in the real world. It seems like a cop out to only be concerned about what you see here, in this small and insignificant corner of the internet, not what is broadcast on Fox news every day, or what is screeched on Twitter by our actual president constantly. Selective outrage is one of the biggest reasons we can’t get along in this country politically. When you only get upset by things that go along with and confirm your pre-existing views, and ignore or handwave away anything that goes against your prevailing mindset, you only become further entrenched and it just serves to exacerbate our divisions. We missed each other entirely. I wasn’t less concerned about the real world because I have concerns here. I dislike Trump, as a person and a President but if the rest of the folks were to believed here, I am a Trumpist … Me posting here is ME and you answering here is YOU talking to ME. The same goes for them (everyone jumping in with an opinion) When others, maybe not you, interject what my motivations are for posting (Which repeatedly happened here by Czarcasm) and then go on to label and argue vs that label. It’s inaccurate at best, and blatantly dishonest at worst. I am arguing against that blatant dishonesty, and honestly deserve an apology. Then it gets jumped on by a plethora of other posters, who seemingly argue the same way because hey why not, after all we ARE in the pit. Do I really think I will get an apology? LOL, of course not. But the divisiveness that some posters here create isn’t good for any rational discourse between 2 opposing views. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/264 "2019-10-09T18:11:43Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > But the divisiveness that some posters here create isn’t good for any rational discourse between 2 opposing views. I think all we can do as individuals is ask ourselves what our contributions are. Are we helping solve the problem, or are we exacerbating it. Neither I nor you can control what anyone else says, but we can certainly control how we react to it, and whether we choose to continue the cycle. The only way out of this mess is for all of us to walk out of it ourselves. If we wait for everyone else to go first, nobody will ever move from where we are now. Edited to add because pit: damnit ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/265 "2019-10-09T18:30:34Z")
Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren’t “Hitler supporters” just because they didn’t want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest? Even when all middle grounds were no longer possible and those were the only two realistic options left? By that standard every man and woman in Finland abetted the Holocaust. Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/266 "2019-10-09T18:32:05Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > **And let’s be very clear** : _Anyone who is not enthusiastically supporting any alternative to Trump is a “Trump supporter.”_ Even if the alternative is a “democratic socialist”, or [gasp!] someone who wants to make it harder for lunatics to own AR-15s. That’s stupid bullshit. Trump is in my mind the worst president ever elected in the US (except maybe Jackson, he was literally committing genocide on American soil) but you’re a pitiful moron to insist that if you don’t support putting anyone in the White House aside from Trump then you support him. You insist that anyone would be better. Do you have any idea how frothing-mouthed, batshit crazy that sounds? Do you go outside and yell at birds about Trump? Holy shit. I know Trump Derangement Syndrome is garbage made up by the right to demonize people opposed to The Don but you make me wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/267 "2019-10-09T18:33:32Z")
Kurds are getting killed today in Syria because of him. Our allies are being left for dead. Our word is worthless now. That is evil. Sorry you feel personally attacked because you voted for this, but you did vote for this. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/268 "2019-10-09T18:34:11Z")
And chew on this… The simplistic “I’d vote for anyone in the world but {insert name}” idiocy is how people like Trump get elected. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/269 "2019-10-09T18:35:15Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s stupid bullshit. Trump is in my mind the worst president ever elected in the US (except maybe Jackson, he was literally committing genocide on American soil) but you’re a pitiful moron to insist that if you don’t support putting anyone in the White House aside from Trump then you support him. You insist that anyone would be better. Do you have any idea how frothing-mouthed, batshit crazy that sounds? Do you go outside and yell at birds about Trump? Holy shit. I know Trump Derangement Syndrome is garbage made up by the right to demonize people opposed to The Don but you make me wonder. Which of the top five candidates would be worse than Trump? If you can’t name any, which of the top ten? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/270 "2019-10-09T18:35:17Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Kurds are getting killed today in Syria because of him. Our allies are being left for dead. Our word is worthless now. > > That is evil. > > Sorry you feel personally attacked because you voted for this, but you did vote for this. Yeah that news pissed me off. I wouldn’t trust America after that BS. The country can and should be a lot better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/271 "2019-10-09T18:38:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which of the top five candidates would be worse than Trump? If you can’t name any, which of the top ten? Sanders would be. I used to think a guy with crazy ideas that don’t work would be reined in by his handlers but after Trump I no longer believe that. He wants to do things that are financially impossible. I don’t have faith that Congress would get in the way of that. ETA: At this point I’d support most Democratic front-runners though. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/272 "2019-10-09T18:40:51Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren’t “Hitler supporters” just because they didn’t want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest? Even when all middle grounds were no longer possible and those were the only two realistic options left? By that standard every man and woman in Finland abetted the Holocaust. > > Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon. Guess how much anyone here cares what you do or do not bitterly resent? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/273 "2019-10-09T18:41:20Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Sanders would be. I used to think a guy with crazy ideas that don’t work would be reined in by his handlers but after Trump I no longer believe that. He wants to do things that are financially impossible. I don’t have faith that Congress would get in the way of that. Sanders would be ineffective because he wouldn’t have the blind support Trump has. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/274 "2019-10-09T18:54:47Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s pure nonsense. I know a lot of Trump voters and not one is wishing for violence or a dictator. Sure, sure. Yup yup. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/275 "2019-10-09T19:00:11Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > … Do I really think I will get an apology? LOL, of course not. But the divisiveness that some posters here create isn’t good for any rational discourse between 2 opposing views. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren’t “Hitler supporters” just because they didn’t want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest? @ Either one or both of you: — Suppose the Election were right now, _Warren vs Trump. **Which one do you vote for?** _ (Suppose a genie tells you your vote will be the deciding vote.) If you refuse to answer that, you’re not serious about being understood. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/276 "2019-10-09T19:06:58Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren’t “Hitler supporters” just because they didn’t want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest? Even when all middle grounds were no longer possible and those were the only two realistic options left? By that standard every man and woman in Finland abetted the Holocaust. Actually most men and women in Finland repudiated the holocaust and threw monkey wrenches to the death machinery when Germany demanded Jews to be deported, while Finland also opposed Stalin fiercely. Point being here is that in reality you are making furious efforts to ignore the actual middle ground, that one that repudiates the current Republicans in power and makes efforts to get reasonable Republican people into positions of power. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon. As early in the administration and now shows, Trump’s decision to virtually stop all refugees from coming to the USA leads to many deaths and many more will die by not allowing people that are suffering thanks to the incompetent buffoon to come to America. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/277 "2019-10-09T19:17:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sanders would be ineffective because he wouldn’t have the blind support Trump has. I’d like to think so but like I said I’m worried about that. I will say that if Biden or Warren are nominated, if nothing really awful comes out before the election they’d have my vote. Not an enthusiastic vote but an unhesitant one. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/278 "2019-10-09T19:24:59Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > {…} To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon. To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about a laughably incompetent buffoon rather than the President of the world’s only superpower. > [@Lumpy](#): > > {…} Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. {…} Why am I sure we won’t read any compelling reasons for this rationalization? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/279 "2019-10-09T19:39:45Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren’t “Hitler supporters” just because they didn’t want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest? Even when all middle grounds were no longer possible and those were the only two realistic options left? By that standard every man and woman in Finland abetted the Holocaust. > > Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon. OK, sounds like you have a little buyer’s remorse. This being the Pit, “morally bankrupt” is among many of the labels you’re going to get. Plus, you haven’t answered my questions, so you’re either unwilling or uncaring. Your only justification for supporting Trump as far as I can tell was you didn’t want Hillary, and thought she’d be a disaster on the level of Stalin. You invented a worst-case scenario where Hillary would stand on a mound of confiscated guns and aborted fetuses and force everybody to embrace liberal values. You let yourself be swept by hyperbolic conservative tactics designed to intimidate voters into taking their side, lest they have their lives upended by liberal elite communist socialist homosexual race-mixing tax and spenders. Everybody gets conned at one time or another and don’t want to admit it. This was no Stalin or Hitler scenario. This was a con man who told you everything you wanted to hear. He didn’t double-speak like politicians usually do, and his message was simple. You saw him on TV a few times and thought it’d be fun to have him rule the country. You believed all the horror stories about Hillary. I used to support Nixon in my youth for the same reason. So did enough voters to have him win the '72 election in a landslide. Then Watergate ensued and we saw how much he conned us. Yes, it hurts your pride, but life goes on and you become a little more wary of con artists. We just don’t want a repeat experience. We can at least vote him out of office. We could have voted Hillary out too if she didn’t perform as expected. Stalin and Hitler supporters didn’t have that option. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/280 "2019-10-09T19:40:46Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. A real suck is less serious than an imaginary one. Gotcha. > [@](#): > > I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. There are plenty more reasons than that for you being called morally bankrupt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213.md?page=15)