# A simple question for Trump supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 3, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213 "2019-10-03T17:21:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/281 "2019-10-09T19:49:47Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > @ Either one or both of you: — Suppose the Election were right now, _Warren vs Trump. **Which one do you vote for?** _ (Suppose a genie tells you your vote will be the deciding vote.) > > If you refuse to answer that, you’re not serious about being understood. I’d probably vote Warren after research. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/282 "2019-10-09T20:33:52Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I’d probably vote Warren after research. Research into what, exactly? Not that there is anything wrong with research. I’m curious what you feel you don’t yet know about Warren in contrast to what you already know about Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/283 "2019-10-09T20:49:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > HE DISDAINS EXPERTISE So did Henry Ford, which led to [this fiasco](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/aug/19/lost-cities-10-fordlandia-failure-henry-ford-amazon). ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/284 "2019-10-10T02:09:42Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I was having a conversation with a close relative the other day that I found enlightening, at least with regard to the current conservative psyche. > > I asked him if he thought there were any hard lines the “good guys” should never cross. And he basically said, not really. He said that it’s all nice and well to have ethics in a world where everyone holds hands and sings Kumbaya, but in the real world, you do what you have to do in America’s best interests. Even if it means lowering yourself to “their” level. > > After several minutes of debate, and some hemming and hawing, he came up with a line: genocide. As in, if there’s a village full of civilians, you can’t just bomb them because you don’t like their face. If there’s a better reason to bomb them, though, like there’s terrorists hiding out in the village, kaboom away. > > > > Convince yourself that having Agent Orange around is the best thing for the country, and with that mindset you really could overlook him shooting a guy on Fifth Avenue. > > Update: screwing over the Kurds is also bad. Bad enough that over breakfast, unasked, he complained about Trump being an impulsive idiot who abandoned our allies, even though the Republicans were asking him not to. He didn’t even try to troll me about it. I didn’t press the issue, but having him admit that the Orange One could do _anything_ wrong is a baby step in the right direction. CORRECTION, following another convo with said relative: he’d like to make it known that I somewhat misrepsensented his opinion. He’s not sure there’s any lines a nation shouldn’t cross in SELF-DEFENSE. With a somewhat broad understanding of “self-defense”. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/285 "2019-10-10T04:08:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Sure, sure. Yup yup. How many Trump supporters do you know? Have they advocated violence? Are they as intimidating as your Ontario granny-in-a-walker Antifa bullies? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/286 "2019-10-10T06:31:33Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I’ve never supported Trump; I just didn’t want to see Hillary Clinton push her gun ban agenda. Remember when Wayne LaPierre said Obama’s “low-key approach to gun rights during his first term was” a “conspiracy to ensure re-election by lulling gun owners to sleep.” “All that first term, lip service to gun owners is just part of a massive Obama conspiracy to deceive voters and hide his true intentions to destroy the Second Amendment during his second term,” [he said](https://www.nraila.org/articles/20120211/nra-official-obama-wants-to-outlaw-guns-in-2nd-term). Obama won his second term. And yet, he didn’t take any guns. A person who is not an idiot might realize by now they were being duped by conmen who played on their emotional attachment to guns. Fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, “no really, this time they’re gonna take mah guns!” How many times are you going to get fooled? All of them? So tell me, are you always this gullible or are you just not smart enough to figure out you’ve been lied to repeatedly? You could be both dumb and gullible, but I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt right now that you’re only one of those things. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/287 "2019-10-10T07:02:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How many Trump supporters do you know? Have they advocated violence? > > Are they as intimidating as your Ontario granny-in-a-walker Antifa bullies? I do not know many Trump supporters personally. (I live on the wrong continent for those). However I have seen footage of Trump promising rewards/support to people using violence against people protesting him. I’ve seen Trump call right-wing extremists “Good people” after they just attacked and killed a counter-protester :How many people have been killed by Antifa? Which recent Mass-shooter left an Anti-Trump manifesto? You are not looking at a very complete picture if you are calling those who oppose Trump “violent”. By comparison they are positively pacifist. “But THEY are so violent” is a really dumb talking point for Trump supporters. but it sure fits the pattern of accusing others of your own crimes. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/288 "2019-10-10T08:29:49Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s stupid bullshit. Trump is in my mind the worst president ever elected in the US (except maybe Jackson, he was literally committing genocide on American soil) but you’re a pitiful moron to insist that if you don’t support putting anyone in the White House aside from Trump then you support him. You insist that anyone would be better. Do you have any idea how frothing-mouthed, batshit crazy that sounds? Do you go outside and yell at birds about Trump? Holy shit. I know Trump Derangement Syndrome is garbage made up by the right to demonize people opposed to The Don but you make me wonder. A list of the two persons who would be the worst possible choices for POTUS consists of _ME_ and the America-hating fuckstick currently befouling the Oval Office. An assertion that objective reality proclaims _ME_ as being the better of the two choices is NOT crazy. It’s objective reality. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/289 "2019-10-10T11:08:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How many Trump supporters do you know? Have they advocated violence? > > Are they as intimidating as your Ontario granny-in-a-walker Antifa bullies? I do like the way you ask how many violent Trump supporters he personally knows, then link to an example of two people you presumably have never met. I only personally know two Trump supporters who make violent threats about people they disagree with, but I only know 4 Trump supporters in real life. Not surprising for someone who doesn’t live in America, as let’s be honest Trump’s demographic don’t really travel that much. Certainly I’d hesitate to draw a conclusion from such a small data set. However using your logic of referencing people in the news as examples, how about [Eric Lin](https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdfl/pr/maryland-man-arrested-making-multiple-threats-injure-and-kill-hispanics) (“I Thank God everyday President Donald John Trump is President”), [Dallas Frazier](https://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/man-charged-with-assault-after-punching-anti-trump-protester-outside-us-bank-arena), [John Kless](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6306327-Kless-Complaint.html), [Matthew Haviland](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6306325-Matthew-Haviland-complaint.html) (“all Democrats must be slaughtered”), [Patrick Carlineo](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6306317-Carlineo-Complaint.html) (“declared in an interview “that he was a patriot, that he loves the president, and that he hates radical Muslims in our government””), [Randal Thom](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6306308-Randal-Thom-Police-PR.html) (member of the “Trump’s Front Row Joes” supporters group, has travelled to dozens of the president’s rallies"), [Michael Brogan](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6306536-Br) (threatened to kill a US senator for criticizing Trump ), [James Patrick](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6306423-James-Patrick-Complaint.html) (described himself as a “Trump Militant Conservative” called for the enslavement of “not just blacks but ALL liberals”), [Cesar Sayoc](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6306447-file0-803555394561169.html) ( living in a van plastered with pro-Trump stickers, pleadedguilty to 65 felony charges including using weapons of mass destruction in an attempted domestic terrorist attack)… …I can go on if you want, as it’s disturbingly easy to find examples of Trump supporters with very violent tendencies. In fairness I did a search for examples of a Bernie Sanders supporter going violent, and the only example I could find was from 2 years ago and appears to be a complete one off. This would suggest quite strongly that one side has more of an issue than the other. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/290 "2019-10-10T13:46:18Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. Did the snowflake have his feelings hurt? I’m sure the Kurds feel bad for you. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/291 "2019-10-10T13:48:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Research into what, exactly? Not that there is anything wrong with research. > > I’m curious what you feel you don’t yet know about Warren in contrast to what you already know about Trump. Whether or not I align with her politics vs any other candidate. I would literally put them side by side along with any other options. I may very well end up voting third party, given that option. I would most assuredly vote against Donald in a Primary, which won’t happen. Warren or Biden , at the moment, are clearly to me the sanest of the candidates that the Democrats might put forth but I would still want to know more. Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, gun toting American. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/292 "2019-10-10T13:56:55Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. Fuck your feelings, you whiny little snowflake. This forum isn’t a safe space. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/293 "2019-10-10T14:34:50Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Whether or not I align with her politics vs any other candidate. I would literally put them side by side along with any other options. > > I may very well end up voting third party, given that option. I would most assuredly vote against Donald in a Primary, which won’t happen. > > Warren or Biden , at the moment, are clearly to me the sanest of the candidates that the Democrats might put forth but I would still want to know more. > > Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, gun toting American. Assume whoever is the Dem nominee, they will likely take a much more pro-gun-control platform than the current administration and Republican controlled senate. Assume also that they will advocate for the kinds of policies that 90% of Americans currently support and that McConnell is currently holding up from a senate vote. Assume that fiscal policies will be in line with the Obama administration as far as ACA, environment and energy policies, fiscal/consumer protection policies, TPP trade policies, etc… (Free tuition and universal healthcare are off the table.) I feel like those are reasonably safe and realistic assumptions to make. Given the above, and knowing what you know about Trump, are you or are you not ruling out the possibility that you will vote for him in the 2020 election? I appreciate your direct and honest response. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/294 "2019-10-10T14:38:00Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Fuck your feelings, you whiny little snowflake. This forum isn’t a safe space. I agree, but even I’m slightly triggered by your aggressive tone. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/295 "2019-10-10T14:53:50Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren’t “Hitler supporters” just because they didn’t want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest? Even when all middle grounds were no longer possible and those were the only two realistic options left? By that standard every man and woman in Finland abetted the Holocaust. > > Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon. What you and every other Trump voter has exhibited is, in the very least, inexcusably poor judgment. Especially that asshole Shodan. Who should fucking well know better. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/296 "2019-10-10T15:30:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Assume whoever is the Dem nominee, they will likely take a much more pro-gun-control platform than the current administration and Republican controlled senate. Assume also that they will advocate for the kinds of policies that 90% of Americans currently support and that McConnell is currently holding up from a senate vote. > Assume that fiscal policies will be in line with the Obama administration as far as ACA, environment and energy policies, fiscal/consumer protection policies, TPP trade policies, etc… (Free tuition and universal healthcare are off the table.) > > I feel like those are reasonably safe and realistic assumptions to make. > > Given the above, and knowing what you know about Trump, are you or are you not ruling out the possibility that you will vote for him in the 2020 election? > > I appreciate your direct and honest response. I honestly do not know, I may likely not vote at all if no one gets any closer to my ideals and those limits kind of paint me in a corner. Limited government is an ideal I do not hold lightly and from all the stuff you expected the Obama admin to do lines up with future Democrat admin, I doubt I could vote that way. Given that I would vote for Obama over Trump TODAY, but I’d rather have a Clinton or even a Bush back. Editted to add: I didn’t vote for Trump the last time, nor would I this go round. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/297 "2019-10-10T15:38:52Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I honestly do not know, I may likely not vote at all if no one gets any closer to my ideals and those limits kind of paint me in a corner. > Limited government is an ideal I do not hold lightly and from all the stuff you expected the Obama admin to do lines up with future Democrat admin, I doubt I could vote that way. Given that I would vote for Obama over Trump TODAY, but I’d rather have a Clinton or even a Bush back. Yeah, it’s easy to give a solid commitment to choices you know you will never have to make. If I get you right about the _actual_ choice to be made, you intend to abdicate your responsibility as a voter by foolishly asserting that both sides are equally abhorrent and not voting. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/298 "2019-10-10T15:45:52Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I honestly do not know, I may likely not vote at all if no one gets any closer to my ideals and those limits kind of paint me in a corner. {…} Good to know that your ‘ideals’ include four more years with Trump as President. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/299 "2019-10-10T15:52:45Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Good to know that your ‘ideals’ include four more years with Trump as President. > > CMC fnord! Tell you what, whether or not you decide to Primary someone electable or not is not my responsibility. But hey, I am open to compromise. Let’s vote in Gary Johnson and we can both be winners! ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213/300 "2019-10-10T15:53:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah, it’s easy to give a solid commitment to choices you know you will never have to make. If I get you right about the _actual_ choice to be made, you intend to abdicate your responsibility as a voter by foolishly asserting that both sides are equally abhorrent and not voting. And this is more just crazy straw as it’s a good thing I will have more than 2 choices … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-simple-question-for-trump-supporters/841213.md?page=16)