# A Song of Ice and Fire discussion! (spoilers herein) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 19, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-discussion-spoilers-herein/156152 "2003-02-19T16:41:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nichol\_storm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Nichol\_storm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nichol_storm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-discussion-spoilers-herein/156152/41 "2003-05-27T19:17:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stricker van Gogh \* > \*\*I’ll follow the spoiler box tradition. > > If that’s true, which seems very likely to me now, then Ned did a great job of hiding it. Ned mentions to King Robert that Wylla (spelling?) is Jon’s mother, and in book we hear again of Wylla from Ser Beric’s squire.\*\* Yes, but… IIRC, in aGoT, King Robert asks Ned about Wylla only to have Ned change the subject. Later on we meet Edric Dayne, who claims to be Jon’s “milk brother” because they were both nursed by Wylla. So it looks as though Wylla was just a wetnurse, not Jon’s biological mother. > [@](#): > > \*\*Martin has shown no hesitation when confronted with the choice of killing a great character. That’s one of many reasons why he’s such an amazing author. With that said, I believe the Hound will survive a little bit longer. He’ll eventually die, but then so will everyone else. Valar morghulis. > > How many of you believe that the humans will win against the Others? \*\* Sandor has to survive for just a little while longer. He has to. Gregor’s still out there, Arya’s still out there, and most of all Sansa’s still out there, so he has to survive. Hear me Martin?! HAS TO! Bytheway, who here was also astonished by how the characters changed sides and your perceptions through the books? I mean, who would’ve thought the big nasty burned dude at the beginning of aGoT would become fan-favorite Sandor? Or that irredeemably evil Jaime Lannister would be, well, redeemed? Or that sweet tomboy Arya would become a cold-blooded killer? As for GRRM’s much-vaunted bloodthirstiness, I think we need to remember that he doesn’t kill protagonists or portray carnage, sex, and naughty language just for the shock value. It’s all to develop the characters and plot and provide a sense of reality in a very unreal world. In the hands of a lesser writer ASoIaF might have become shoot-'em-up soft-core porn but in GRRM’s hands it becomes a deeply tragic tale of war and love. Characters bleed and laugh and die and mourn and love and kill. Actions have consequences. Play the game of thrones, and you win or you lose. If Tolkein created a new mythology, then I think GRRM has created a new history. He spends less time on songs and more time on statecraft, and while this is not to everyone’s taste it suits mine just fine. .:Nichol:. ---
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-discussion-spoilers-herein/156152/42 "2003-05-27T21:40:19Z")
I’ve got a question about the series, that has bugged me for a while - at the end of Storm of Swords, is Davos alive? After the scene where he confronts Stannis and pushes him into going North, he’s not seen again, IIRC. Did anyone else notice this? Or did I miss something? Mind you, I’m not interested in any spoilers from the already published/heard sections of the fourth book, so please don’t share that knowledge if you have it. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-discussion-spoilers-herein/156152/43 "2003-05-27T22:04:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Wilson wrote:_ > I’ve got a question about the series, that has bugged me for a while - at the end of Storm of Swords, is Davos alive? After the scene where he confronts Stannis and pushes him into going North, he’s not seen again, IIRC. Did anyone else notice this? Or did I miss something? He’s definetely still alive. It’s easy to miss but the confirmation comes in Stannis’ talk with Jon on top of the Wall. I don’t have the book in front of me, so I can’t quote the passage, but Stannis mentions that his Hand convinced him to go north, then refers to his Hand in the present tense (I forget why exactly, I think he calls Davos a good man or something similar), and he’s clearly talking about the same person. Additionally, at [www.westeros.org](http://www.westeros.org) there’s a collection of email replies that people have gotten from Martin, and one of them concerns Davos. I don’t know if this counts as a spoiler exactly, since the knowledge that Davos is alive can be gained from the books, but in case anyone really doesn’t want to know… Martin confirms in the email that Davos is still alive, and says he’s at Eastwatch by the Sea with what’s left of Stannis’ fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-discussion-spoilers-herein/156152/44 "2003-05-28T02:46:36Z")
Thanks for the info, **Amok** , and the courtesy of the spoiler box! I found the passage - it’s one reference to Davos in the present tense (“Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth”) amidst a paragraph that talks of his past actions in convincing Stannis to go north. 'taint much to go on, but it seems definitive. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-discussion-spoilers-herein/156152/45 "2003-05-28T11:43:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gallows fodder \* > \*\*I’m not sure about the Others…I have a strong feeling that there won’t be a happy ending to the series, but I can’t see it ending on such a sour note as “mankind destroyed / Others victorious!” We’ll just have to wait (and wait and wait) to see, though. 🙂 \*\* Someone suggested this ending to me, and it seems very, very likely, a tragedy of epic proportions. I think the point of the whole thing is that people cannot both fight amongst themselves and also fight against the forces of their destruction. ---
**Author:** ![Trjckster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Trjckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trjckster)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-discussion-spoilers-herein/156152/46 "2003-05-30T10:00:42Z")
I definately think Tyrion will try to take Highkeep with the Hillmen, he promised them it as a reward for helping him and “Lannister’s always pay their debts”. Capturing Sasha and beating Littlefinger (since once he knows were Sasha is he’ll figure out who set him up) will probably be his real goal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-discussion-spoilers-herein/156152.md?page=2)