# A spontaneous Pit of the class system in my country. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2008, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870 "2008-10-28T00:20:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/1 "2008-10-28T00:20:27Z")
In the company I work for the man with the top job, who probably gets paid at least twice what I get paid is an eton educated upper class toff. I swear, this man is the perfect caricature of upper class. He proves that life is stranger than fiction. He is more of a toff than it is possible to portray on TV. He is also a blithering idiot. Like most senior management he completely lacks intelligence. He never thinks things through. I am constantly having to correct his mistakes. He may be the COO of the company, But the company is being ‘run’ by me, and a select few other working class people. Because of the class system, Intelligent people who make companies work are employees, and blithering idiots are employers on more than twice as much dough. Fuck that. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/2 "2008-10-28T00:27:03Z")
Fuckity fuck, sausages and bacon fuck. Fuckwerthington fuckwell the fuck. I humbly request that all those who do not deserve to live please die. But before you do, donate your fuckloads of money to those who need it. Because you more-evil-than-hitler-and-osama-bin-laden turds certainly don’t need it. Make redemtion your swansong. Stop fucking with us. edit: This coming from someone who hates swearing and vulgarity. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/3 "2008-10-28T00:33:13Z")
Firstly, I’d fairly well guarantee that you’re going to find more fuckwits per capita the lower on the income ladder you look, and secondly, pit the man not the “class.” That’s the point of meritocracy, is that individuals who suck or are good get promoted or fired as they deserve. If you’re going to lump individuals into classes of people with no particular regard for their personal abilities, then you’re behaving just as much as a classist as anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/4 "2008-10-28T00:41:56Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Firstly, I’d fairly well guarantee that you’re going to find more fuckwits per capita the lower on the income ladder you look, and secondly, pit the man not the “class.” That’s the point of meritocracy, is that individuals who suck or are good get promoted or fired as they deserve. If you’re going to lump individuals into classes of people with no particular regard for their personal abilities, then you’re behaving just as much as a classist as anyone else. This man would not have got to the position he is in if he was a commoner with the same intelligence. He’d be sweeping streets. I agree that there are probably more fuckwits who are low class, at least they don’t end up on top jobs. My Pit is aimed at the fact that upper-class people have an easy access to top jobs. I deeply admire people who are in well paid jobs when they have worked their asses off to get there. I do not admire people who are in well paid jobs because their father is rich so they can pay for a big share. ---
**Author:** ![mske](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@mske](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mske)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/5 "2008-10-28T01:28:35Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > In the company I work for the man with the top job, who probably gets paid at least twice what I get paid is an eton educated upper class **toff**. > > I swear, this man is the perfect caricature of upper class. He proves that life is stranger than fiction. He is more of a **toff** than it is possible to portray on TV. I like that word - “toff”. I’m going to start calling people that at work tomorrow. Except my boss - he’s English, or Welsh or something like that. He probably knows what it means. ---
**Author:** ![Amber\_in\_Treasury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Amber\_in\_Treasury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amber_in_Treasury)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/6 "2008-10-28T01:47:41Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > I deeply admire people who are in well paid jobs when they have worked their asses off to get there. I do not admire people who are in well paid jobs because their father is rich so they can pay for a big share. Amen brother. ---
**Author:** ![Margeuerite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Margeuerite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Margeuerite)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/7 "2008-10-28T01:50:28Z")
At least you have the advantage of being entertained by the caricature this man presents of “upper class.” The upper class specimens who chair the board of the small private school where I work treat me like I am a dismissible servant when they are forced to interact with me. It sucks, but I tell myself that when this ship sinks, I’ll know how to get by and they won’t. My husband spent years educating himself and trying to raise himself up from his working class background, and he would be an asset to any school who would hire him. But a good number of the teaching positions are taken by people who don’t know when World War I began and who complain how broke they are earning $40,000 per annum. (In comparison, my husband and I both live on my $28,000 per annum salary.) Many “middle class” people treat my husband and me like we are stupid or at best naive because we are not validating their choice to engage in a rat race that has very few winners. I constantly field questions from others in my organization who are paid 3 times my salary and who should KNOW THE ANSWER. I never get any credit for this (maybe I should try rebelling to get their attention), and due to inflation I’m making less now than when I started six years ago. The managers, of course, have received raises of 5-10 per cent each year. The class structure isn’t always fair, and it isn’t going to change. All I can do is make good choices so that the decisions (and failures, as the U.S. is now finding out) of the upper class have less impact on my life. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/8 "2008-10-28T02:05:05Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > That’s the point of meritocracy, is that individuals who suck or are good get promoted or fired as they deserve. And the point of an entrenched social class system, as the OP clearly recognizes, is precisely to **subvert** that admirable principle of meritocracy, so that members of a privileged class can enjoy a status **better** than what they deserve. Sheesh, some of you plutolaters need to learn to read. The OP is not bitter about class because his boss is rich or powerful. He’s bitter about class because the entrenched class system in his society favors the access of certain kinds of people to wealth and power, **whether or not they deserve it**.\* - This is, of course, assuming that the OP is describing the situation accurately and isn’t just making shit up. I have no doubt that there are some ardent plutolaters who refuse to believe that **any** criticism of a wealthy or powerful person as undeserving can be justified, and automatically ascribe all such criticism to carking class envy or feelings of inferiority on the part of the criticizer. But I trust that nobody here subscribes to such extremist views. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/9 "2008-10-28T02:15:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Sheesh, some of you plutolaters need to learn to read. The OP is not bitter about class because his boss is rich or powerful. He’s bitter about class because the entrenched class system in his society favors the access of certain kinds of people to wealth and power, **whether or not they deserve it**.\* His phrasing was such that it was implying that **none of them deserve it** , which is being just as classist. Feel free to pit individuals or to pit the class system, but don’t pit a class of people unless there’s something that is _collectively_ true about _all_ of them. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/10 "2008-10-28T02:38:18Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > His phrasing was such that it was implying that none of them deserve it, which is being just as classist. Where’d you get that? I read the OP as saying that **his company** is captained by undeserving toff-types, not that all members of the upper classes are undeserving. > [@Sage Rat](#): > > Feel free to pit individuals or to pit the class system, but don’t pit a class of people unless there’s something that is collectively true about all of them. Then I trust you’ll be withdrawing your wholesale condemnation of lower-income people as more “fuckwitted” in general than upper-class ones? Or at least providing a cite for your claim that there are more fuckwits among the “lower orders” per capita than among the “toffs”? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/11 "2008-10-28T03:13:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Where’d you get that? I read the OP as saying that **his company** is captained by undeserving toff-types, not that all members of the upper classes are undeserving. I concur. The OP is pissed off at ONE particular toff. On the other hand, **Sage Rat** has just condemned an entire class of people. Would you like tweezers to take care of that plank in your eye **Sage Rat**? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/12 "2008-10-28T05:04:54Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > In the company I work for the man with the top job, who probably gets paid at least twice what I get paid is an eton educated upper class toff. > > I swear, this man is the perfect caricature of upper class. He proves that life is stranger than fiction. He is more of a toff than it is possible to portray on TV. > > He is also a blithering idiot. Like most senior management he completely lacks intelligence. He never thinks things through. I am constantly having to correct his mistakes. He may be the COO of the company, But the company is being ‘run’ by me, and a select few other working class people. > Because of the class system, Intelligent people who make companies work are employees, and blithering idiots are employers on more than twice as much dough. > > Fuck that. [Gee, is it just possible he might be the . . .](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSqkdcT25ss) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/13 "2008-10-28T05:16:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > His phrasing was such that it was implying that **none of them deserve it** , which is being just as classist. :dubious: 1. No, it wasn’t. 2. No, it isn’t. That’s like saying [African-American voters who prefer AA pols are racist.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=468929&highlight=pols) There’s no equivalency. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/14 "2008-10-28T05:18:41Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Firstly, I’d fairly well guarantee that you’re going to find more fuckwits per capita the lower on the income ladder you look, and secondly, pit the man not the “class.” Low income does not equal working class any more than high income equals upper class. > [@](#): > > That’s the point of meritocracy, is that individuals who suck or are good get promoted or fired as they deserve. A class system is not a meritocracy. > [@](#): > > If you’re going to lump individuals into classes of people with no particular regard for their personal abilities, then you’re behaving just as much as a classist as anyone else. Lobsang seems to be criticizing preferential treatment of people lumped together “with no particular regard for their personal abilities.” If noting classism makes you a classist, that seems awfully convenient for the people who benefit from the status quo. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/15 "2008-10-28T05:19:31Z")
Toff with his head. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/16 "2008-10-28T11:47:39Z")
Having rich, well-to-do idiots in charge is NOT restricted to the UK and environs. Happens in the US, too, only they’re not toffs… just rich. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/17 "2008-10-28T11:59:06Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > In the company I work for the man with the top job, who probably gets paid at least twice what I get paid is an eton educated upper class toff. Damn, what I wouldn’t give to get half the pay of the CEO of my company! He got over three million a year, and did such a shitty job that he finally resigned last month. I could do that! I could do a shitty job! Promote me! e: What’s a toff, and why does every British insult sound so [del]fucking[/del] flippin’ effeminate? ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/18 "2008-10-28T16:22:27Z")
> [@neutron\_star](#): > > Damn, what I wouldn’t give to get half the pay of the CEO of my company! He got over three million a year, and did such a shitty job that he finally resigned last month. I could do that! I could do a shitty job! Promote me! > > e: What’s a toff, and why does every British insult sound so [del]fucking[/del] flippin’ effeminate? Oh I say! We’re all queeries that’s whhhhy ;);)😉 I think it’s meant to sound effeminate because toffs are effeminate. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/19 "2008-10-28T16:36:55Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Firstly, I’d fairly well guarantee that you’re going to find more fuckwits per capita the lower on the income ladder you look, and secondly, pit the man not the “class.” That’s the point of meritocracy, is that individuals who suck or are good get promoted or fired as they deserve. If you’re going to lump individuals into classes of people with no particular regard for their personal abilities, then you’re behaving just as much as a classist as anyone else. The point is exactly that Britain (and every other country) is not a meritocracy. If your system allows inherited wealth, it’s not a meritocracy. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870/20 "2008-10-28T16:38:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The point is exactly that Britain (and every other country) is not a meritocracy. If your system allows inherited wealth, it’s not a meritocracy. Quite. Wealth gives poorer runners a head start, which is why a meritocracy demands governments makes efforts to level out the playing field. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-spontaneous-pit-of-the-class-system-in-my-country/469870.md?page=2)