# A story sad beyond tears - What can be done to stop these horrible online murderers? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 9, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653 "2003-06-09T15:33:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/1 "2003-06-09T15:33:15Z")
Just when you thought the depths of humanity had been plumbed you see things like this - [A VIRTUAL PATH TO SUICIDE Depressed student killed herself with help from online discussion group](http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/06/08/MN114902.DTL) The story is sad enough but the attached pics in the article of this young girl are just simply heartbreaking. To think that there people in this world who are misguided or evil enough to think they were doing this little girl a favor by helping her to kill herself. Small part of the article. > [@](#): > > Red Bluff – Suzy Gonzales zipped around this small ranching town on a red scooter, wearing a fuchsia wig and carrying a stuffed two-headed cat that she’d stitched together from scratch. > > She favored plaid skirts with green sneakers, came from a tight-knit family and earned a full scholarship to Florida State University. She had a radiant smile. > > She was also depressed and wanted to kill herself. > > Unbeknownst to her friends and loved ones, the 19-year-old logged onto an obscure Internet site to confide her darkest thoughts to strangers. > > There, Gonzales found people who told her that suicide was an acceptable way to end her despair, and who gave her instructions on how to obtain a lethal dose of potassium cyanide and mix it into a deadly cocktail. > [@](#): > > [sub]Gonzales’ death is the 14th confirmed suicide associated with the online discussion group (which The Chronicle is not identifying). An additional 14 suicides are listed by the group as “success stories” but cannot be verified because the individuals used anonymous screen names, and the group has refused to disclose their true identities. The number of deaths may be higher. Evidence suggests that at least one person who never actually communicated with the group killed herself after downloading instructions on how to commit suicide by inhaling carbon monoxide. > > Founded in 1990, the discussion group defines its philosophy as being “pro- choice” suicide. Participants view suicide as a civil right that anyone should be able to exercise, for whatever reason. On any given day, the Internet site is filled with hopeless rants about life’s miseries, advertisements for suicide partners, and requests for feedback on self-murder plans. Among the hottest items is a “methods file,” a step-by-step guide on how to commit suicide – from asphyxiation to rat poison. > > The group vigorously defends itself, citing what it sees as a need for people to express suicidal thoughts without fear of being hospitalized by their therapists or alarming their families. But mental health experts and the relatives of group members who have died charge that the group actually encourages depressed people to kill themselves [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/2 "2003-06-09T15:42:44Z")
There seems to be something logically paradoxical and wrong with a group that advocates suicide as an option. I am struck wondering why they haven’t offed themselves, although I am confident they would have a rationalization for that… ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/3 "2003-06-09T15:48:59Z")
What’s the address of the suicide website? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/4 "2003-06-09T15:50:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Indygrrl \* > \*\*What’s the address of the suicide website? \*\* \Why do you want to know?\ ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/5 "2003-06-09T15:54:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Indygrrl \* > \*\*What’s the address of the suicide website? \*\* NOTE - IANA Moderator for the SDMB by any stretch, but I have to assume it would be against policy to share such a web address, regardless of the motive, on this board, due to potential legal ramifications… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_With_The_Golden_Gun)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/6 "2003-06-09T15:56:56Z")
I know what the group is. I’ve heard of them, and used to visit them in my suicidal days. They are an extreme bunch. You must understand their mindset. These people need help, not condemnation. They consider their lives so miserable, that they see no other option than to committ suicide. They aren’t murderers, they are just ill, and need help. I’ll post the address if a mod will come in and say I can. I’m not sure if it’s against the rules or not. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/7 "2003-06-09T16:09:09Z")
I am probably not the first to do this, but I emailed the mods to check in with them. They are probably way ahead of me anyway. Thanks for waiting, **Man with the Golden Gun**. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/8 "2003-06-09T16:09:14Z")
IMO these people are more misguided than evil. I used to think suicide was a perfectly valid choice for people to make, and I would have provided advice on how to do so, if asked. Not because I want people to die, but people I would have wanted people’s suffering to end. I now realize that the suffering that the survivors will feel is likely to be as great or greater than the suffering one is trying to end. It’s simply not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/9 "2003-06-09T16:13:46Z")
**Moderator’s note:** Please do NOT post the link to the site. Suicide is still illegal, quite beyond the devastation is wreaks. TVeblen, for the SDMB ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/10 "2003-06-09T16:18:04Z")
Suicide _is_ a perfectly valid choice for _some_ people to make, such as this fellow I read about in today’s _Times_: “Dr. Richard A. Gardner, a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who developed a theory about parental alienation syndrome, which he said could lead children in high-conflict custody cases to falsely accuse a parent of abuse, died on May 25 at his home in Tenafly, N.J. He was 72. The cause was suicide, said Dr. Gardner’s son, Andrew, who said his father had been distraught over the advancing symptoms of reflex sympathetic dystrophy, a painful neurological syndrome.” Certainly not for a 19-year-old girl suffering from depression, though, and that group should be, well . . . _What?_ It _is_ free speech, so I don’t think they can be shut down . . . ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/11 "2003-06-09T16:19:12Z")
It’s not difficult to find. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/12 "2003-06-09T16:31:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalhoun \* > \*\*It’s not difficult to find. \*\* No doubt **Kalhoun** - all the more reason to not post it here. I believe in free speech, but I want the SDMB to be around to be able to discuss it, not shut down due to some lawsuit. By the way, I agree with **Eve** - suicide is a person’s choice and may be valid in some cases. But that is very different from what this article seems to be discussing - helping young, depressed people find a means to act out on their depression when other avenues would be much better for them and their loved ones. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/13 "2003-06-09T19:15:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*\Why do you want to know?\ \*\* Heh, I just have a morbid curiosity about these things, plus I have some friends who would troll the fuck out of it just for kicks. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/14 "2003-06-09T19:26:53Z")
seems like it’s not the type of site you should try and get your ‘kicks’ from. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/15 "2003-06-09T21:39:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*seems like it’s not the type of site you should try and get your ‘kicks’ from. \*\* Having just looked up and read through some of the site in question, I’m inclined to agree. A can understand a morbid curiosity about the thing (it’s why I looked), but trolling that particular site “just for kicks” seems inappropriate in the extreme. To put it another way… those people may have a right to suicide, but I don’t feel the need to have a hand in facilitating it or giving them further reasons for it. ---
**Author:** ![Loneraven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c0e974/32.png) [@Loneraven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loneraven)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/16 "2003-06-09T21:45:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVeblen \* > **Suicide is still illegal.** Is it? I always thought it had been decriminalised in Britan decades ago, but I never thought about it being illegal in other places. Anyone care to enlighten me? ---
**Author:** ![ata66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@ata66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ata66)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/17 "2003-06-09T23:40:14Z")
slight hijack, but if suicide is illegal, what’s the sentence? if you succeed in killing yourself, the authorities obviously aren’t going to press charges, and the only thing that i’ve heard for those who fail is that they get counseling. are there any other situations/alternatives/weird sentences that have been handed down for trying to commit suicide? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/18 "2003-06-09T23:56:40Z")
I would think they can be charged as accessories, right? And I thought the Pro-Anorexia sites were scary… ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/19 "2003-06-10T00:10:46Z")
They could probably be sued. If they think their lives are miserable now, let them find out how little it improves upon receipt of a subpoena. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653/20 "2003-06-10T00:32:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVeblen \* > \*\*…quite beyond the devastation is wreaks. \*\* I’ve considered this sentiment in the past and have concluded that it is arrogant bullshit. If someone is in so much physical or emotional pain that she sincerely would rather die than continue on, it is selfish to the point of cruelty to suggest that your discomfort from losing her out weighs the torture that is driving her to kill herself. It’s hardly a motive for her to continue on, is it? Her mortal pain is so insignificant that it is overshadowed by your inconvenience. I take it as a given that modern medicine can cure most depressions. But that doesn’t change the fact that someone is suffering from unbearable pain. It would be pretty selfish of me to claim that my suffering from the loss is sufficient reason for her to not end her pain in the only way she knew would work. I’ve never heard of that web site, and I’m not going to venture a guess as to whether the people visiting are sincerely sick or simply twisted sociopaths. Nevertheless, it makes my blood boil when someone suggests that his situational sadness outweighs the crippling physical and/or emotional pain that pushes another to suicide. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-sad-beyond-tears-what-can-be-done-to-stop-these-horrible-online-murderers/180653.md?page=2)