# A Story/Song You THOUGHT Was True Isn't; Does This Bother You? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 1, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272 "2010-02-01T18:19:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/1 "2010-02-01T18:19:37Z")
First, to clarify, I am not concerned with blatant fraudulent works, like James Frey’s “A Million Little Pieces.” I’m referring to works that you’ve INTERPRETED as autobiographical or as “true stories,” even if the teller of the story never made any such claim. What brings this up is, I came upon an old interview in which Paul Simon was discussing some of his songs. He said that fans often assume everything he’s writing is autobiographical, and that everything he sings about has really happened. In fact, Simon says, a huge percentage of what he’s written is fictional, based solely on his imagination. For example, contrary to what he sang, Paul Simon never took a trip to Graceland with his 9 year old son. And despite what he sang in “America,” he never took a bus trip across the country. Simon mentioned that, for reasons he didn’t understand, fans were often extremely disappointed to find out that the stories he tells in song usually aren’t true. So, what about you? Are there stories or songs or novels or poems that you’ve always ASSUMED were autobiographical, that you always assumed were true, and that you’d be very unhappy to find out weren’t? If, say, you’ve always related to a novel about a highly dysfunctional family, would it hurt you in any way to find out that the author had a happy childhood and adores his parents? Or that a song you’ve always related to, that hit home for you emotionally, was completely made up? ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/2 "2010-02-01T18:58:09Z")
It pretty much ruins books for me, so much so that I try and find out before I consider reading them. _Memoirs of a Geisha_ comes immediately to mind. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/3 "2010-02-01T19:41:13Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > It pretty much ruins books for me, so much so that I try and find out before I consider reading them. _Memoirs of a Geisha_ comes immediately to mind. That’s one of the saddest things I’ve ever read. The book is listed as _fiction_. That means, it’s made up. Filled entirely with lies. There was no Geisha, no Hamlet, no Pip, no Hari Seldon – none of those characters ever existed, nor will they exist (other than some parent naming their kid after them). Songs and poems are fiction. They are made up. I can’t even begin to understand what learning this obvious fact about a work makes any difference in the world. If you don’t like fiction, don’t read it. But don’t insist that fiction must be fact. That doesn’t do you nor fiction any favors. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/4 "2010-02-01T19:55:53Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > That’s one of the saddest things I’ve ever read. > > The book is listed as _fiction_. That means, it’s made up. Filled entirely with lies. There was no Geisha, no Hamlet, no Pip, no Hari Seldon – none of those characters ever existed, nor will they exist (other than some parent naming their kid after them). I have no problem with fiction when it’s presented as such. That particular book went out of its way to present itself as autobiographical, and only on the last page did the author say that there was no such character. Had I known that at the start I wouldn’t have cared so much - now I do more research. (It was a beach book at our hotel, so I just started reading it cold). ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/5 "2010-02-01T20:48:14Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > I have no problem with fiction when it’s presented as such. That particular book went out of its way to present itself as autobiographical, and only on the last page did the author say that there was no such character. What? It says “a novel by Arthur Goldin” right on the cover, and as as far as autobiographical, how many geishas are named “Arthur”? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/6 "2010-02-01T21:05:06Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > First, to clarify, I am not concerned with blatant fraudulent works, like James Frey’s “A Million Little Pieces.” I’m referring to works that you’ve INTERPRETED as autobiographical or as “true stories,” even if the teller of the story never made any such claim. > > What brings this up is, I came upon an old interview in which Paul Simon was discussing some of his songs. He said that fans often assume everything he’s writing is autobiographical, and that everything he sings about has really happened. In fact, Simon says, a huge percentage of what he’s written is fictional, based solely on his imagination. > > For example, contrary to what he sang, Paul Simon never took a trip to Graceland with his 9 year old son. And despite what he sang in “America,” he never took a bus trip across the country. Simon mentioned that, for reasons he didn’t understand, fans were often extremely disappointed to find out that the stories he tells in song usually aren’t true. > > So, what about you? Are there stories or songs or novels or poems that you’ve always ASSUMED were autobiographical, that you always assumed were true, and that you’d be very unhappy to find out weren’t? > > If, say, you’ve always related to a novel about a highly dysfunctional family, would it hurt you in any way to find out that the author had a happy childhood and adores his parents? Or that a song you’ve always related to, that hit home for you emotionally, was completely made up? I assume that any work marketed as a novel is fictional and only incidentally biographical. And I assume that all popular songs are works of the songwriter’s imagination. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/7 "2010-02-01T21:21:46Z")
To specifically address the OP—I am a huge fan of Paul Simon’s music (over the years I have heard him play live in Portland, Seattle, New Orleans, San Francisco, here in Salt Lake etc.) and his music really speaks to me in a way that only a handful of other artists do. Until today, I assumed that Paul Simon really did travel to Graceland with his son—Hearing that he did not IS (to me) a little bit odd, since that song in particular sounds like it was a first hand account of a memorable, moving experience for him, and I fully believed that it was based on a real life event. ## That said, I am not about to stop listening to his music, which has meant a lot to me for many years, just because I found out that his songs are not always based on an actual experiences. I am flying down to New Orleans in a couple of months to see Simon and Garfunkel (among many other bands) play what is scheduled to be their only performance this year. If I see him, I suppose I can always confront him about his misleading, deceptive lyrics 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/8 "2010-02-01T21:23:48Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > I have no problem with fiction when it’s presented as such. That particular book went out of its way to present itself as autobiographical, and only on the last page did the author say that there was no such character. Had I known that at the start I wouldn’t have cared so much - now I do more research. (It was a beach book at our hotel, so I just started reading it cold). I’m sorry, I really can’t believe anyone who was paying a modicum of attention would actually think this was a true story. It’s very obviously a novel masquerading as a work of nonfiction. This is really no one’s fault but your own. Sorry if that sounds rude, but it’s true. Anyway, I can’t remember this ever happening to me. It’s never occurred to me that songs would be autobiographical. I tend to skeptical even of purported autobiographies; I spent most of my read of _Running With Scissors_ going “OH NO YOU DID NOT, AUGUSTEN BURROUGHS.” OTOH, if David Sedaris ever revealed that he made up all of his stories about his family, I would be really disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/9 "2010-02-01T21:38:14Z")
It’s…never happened to me. I don’t tend to assume a work of fiction or song to be more connected to the writer’s experiences than ‘this is something I thought would be neat to write about’, or at the very most ‘this is a political statement I wanted to make’. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/10 "2010-02-01T21:44:57Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > OTOH, if David Sedaris ever revealed that he made up all of his stories about his family, I would be really disappointed. Not quite it, but per the live _This American Life_ Christmas show featuring Sedaris’ work, his sister Amy claimed that he really does **like** Christmas a whole lot, but after _The Santaland Diaries_, everyone expects a cynical work out of him each year. That’s probably more in line with what you might expect as a “shocking revelation” about him, though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/11 "2010-02-01T21:48:27Z")
I was also disappointed to find out that Memoirs was entirely fictional. I had assumed it to be a fictionalized account, but not what it was. Masterfully done. It decreased my enjoyment of the story, but increased my respect for the author’s achievement. I don’t know if this counts in the OP, but the purported story behind “Amazing Grace” was one that meant a lot to me. I was extremely disappointed to hear that it was not, in fact, written by the captain of a slaving ship, who had a sudden revelation of clarity and truth. It was both a disgusting and a revealing story, and an example of true redemption. The true story is kinda dull, and I don’t like the song nearly as much now. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/12 "2010-02-01T21:57:09Z")
It only bothers me if the work was presented as true, but then turns out not to be. If I just think it was true, and then it turns out it wasn’t, I chalk it up to learning something new. I’m trying to imagine an instance where this has happened. I think I tend to lean the other way – I’ll usually assume something is fiction, and then I’m surprised when it turns out to be based on autobiography. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/13 "2010-02-01T22:01:15Z")
But “Amazing Grace” really was written by the Captain of a slave ship, who did have a sudden revelation, and who did become a passionate abolitionist. Yeah, he didn’t turn the ship around in the middle of the voyage, but that’s not part of the song anyway. Edit: He wasn’t the captain, but he was a crewmember of a slave ship. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/14 "2010-02-01T23:18:37Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I’m sorry, I really can’t believe anyone who was paying a modicum of attention would actually think this was a true story. It’s very obviously a novel masquerading as a work of nonfiction. > > This is really no one’s fault but your own. Sorry if that sounds rude, but it’s true. I assumed he interviewed an actual geisha and was transcribing, not that he made it up. No worries about being rude - I was certainly not really paying that close attention, being on vacation. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/15 "2010-02-01T23:25:37Z")
I’m told that Dan Fogelberg, after singing his song “Same Old Lang Syne” in concert told the audience, “Actually, we went to a hotel room and screwed like rabbits.” I see that this conflicts with what Wikipedia quotes him as having said. I leave this mystery to the ages. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/16 "2010-02-01T23:28:18Z")
**Morbo** , don’t feel bad, _Geisha_ got me too. And it did bother me a bit when I found out it was pure fiction. Now _I_ pay closer attention and haven’t been suckered in since. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/17 "2010-02-01T23:29:03Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > OTOH, if David Sedaris ever revealed that he made up all of his stories about his family, I would be really disappointed. [Well, maybe not _all_ of them](http://www.slate.com/id/2163957/). > [@](#): > > and as as far as autobiographical, how many geishas are named “Arthur”? OK, this is probably the funniest thing I’m going to read all day. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/18 "2010-02-02T00:06:42Z")
I don’t know how disappointed I was, but I certainly was surprised to find out that the main character in **The Last King of Scotland** is completely fictional. Since it was placed around actual historical events that were recent enough to be in living memory, I just figured that they wouldn’t completely make up somebody out of whole cloth. But they did. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/19 "2010-02-02T00:09:00Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > It’s…never happened to me. I don’t tend to assume a work of fiction or song to be more connected to the writer’s experiences than ‘this is something I thought would be neat to write about’, or at the very most ‘this is a political statement I wanted to make’. I don’t think it’s ever happened to me either. Sometimes I’ll find out that certain memoirs or autobios have errors or lies but I’ve never thought an entire work was real when it wasn’t. Sometimes you learn about the back story of a story or a book, but “This really happened” isn’t the default for me. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272/20 "2010-02-02T00:25:57Z")
I assume everything is made up, to some degree or another. Documentaries are not exempt. Songs and stories are usually _inspired_ by actual occurrences, personalities, and emotions, but since reality is boring, things get spruced up and rearranged. Paul Simon, for example, has more than likely spent many hours riding on buses, since they feature in multiple songs, and he’s lost love and gone on road trips. The emotions are real, just not the circumstances. Just look at how many different versions of his first memory he’s written; they’re all different, yet all very similar. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-story-song-you-thought-was-true-isnt-does-this-bother-you/527272.md?page=2)