# A Sympathy Card for Saddam **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268 "2003-07-22T23:46:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/201 "2003-07-26T17:35:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Merijeek > > So, He’s a meanie for not stepping in and stopping them, is that it? If He didn’t allow people the freedom of moral will then what would He be, a narrow-minded slave owner? Do you also blame someone else for your own lousy decisions, or do you do this only on behalf of third parties? \*\* Sorry, but I’m not someone who is all powerful. I can’t wave my magic crucifix and make the world all better. Jesus could. But he doesn’t. So fuck him. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/202 "2003-07-26T17:40:23Z")
But you would condemn Him either way. He’s an asshole for not interfering, and He would be an asshole if He did. For example, if He stopped you from saying stupid shit about Him, you would likely whimper “foul!”. ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/203 "2003-07-26T20:02:31Z")
This has gone from a thread about two assholes being killed, to the expected incoherent liberal response about how barbaric our reactions are, to a religious discussion about the power of Christ. Wow. Another hijack and I think we all get a free toaster. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/204 "2003-07-26T20:10:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Creative\_Munster \* > \*\*This has gone from a thread about two assholes being killed, to the expected incoherent liberal response about how barbaric our reactions are, to a religious discussion about the power of Christ. > > Wow. Another hijack and I think we all get a free toaster. \*\* So, how 'bout them Dodgers? Think they’ll make it to the Pennant this time? (Does the toaster do bagels? I needs me a toaster that does bagels!) ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/205 "2003-07-26T20:30:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*Saying “I’m still not celebrating over someone’s death. I think my time would be better spent working on a world where such monsters don’t get a chance to proliferate.” is contradictory-unless you have an alternative way to get rid of them, hence my initial querry-“how?” \*\* That makes absolutely no sense. How is that contradictory at all? Two very nasty people die. Afterwords we are given a hypothetical choice: cock and crow, or try and make the world a better place. I say, “door number two, please”, and you come back with “that’s contradictory, unless you have a alternative way to get rid of monsters like Oday and Qusay besides killing them”. At which point I say “Huh?” because that makes no sense at all. If I had any anger when I posted this morning, you seem to have successfully defused it with non-sequiturs, because right now all I am is confused. Well done. But I still have to ask, for the record: What, if anything, does having an alternate method for dealing with those two people…or not…have to do with whether or not we should celebrate their death? I am not contesting that those two men had to die. I’m not supporting that notion either, but that’s a topic for another thread and it’s not even an issue I raised. All I’m contesting is how we should react to their deaths. As best as I can tell, you seem to be arguing that killing them was necessary (which has nothing to do with how we react to their deaths after the fact), that “the only way to do it was with extreme prejudice” (debatable, but also nothing to do with our reactions afterward), and that we should celebrate their deaths because there is less evil in the world. That last is actually a point, but I still don’t see why we can’t celebrate the fact that the world is a better place now and regret the deaths that brought us here at the same time, and I don’t see why I have to have an alternate method of dealing with the problem before I can feel that way. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/206 "2003-07-26T23:43:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*You wanna tell me how? Sure, it sounds great and in theory who could disagree, but how are you going to keep evil from proliferating without rooting it out physically? A stern lecture? Sent to bed without desert? Enquiring minds want to know! \*\* Well, having a government that didn’t set up these monsters in the first place would be a good start. so would going after all the monsters in the world instead of just the ones sitting on oil fields. If you notice i didn’t say we shouldn’t engage in violence, i was stating we should work for a world where these people don’t have a chance to get power. Making sure countries are developed enough that they can provide food for their citizens would be a good start. That would be more effective than just making food shipments. People who are not desparate are less likely to listen to any crazed wacko who comes along wanting to blow people up. Plus more infrastructure in a country means more people have the resources to buy products, so it is a good long term business decision. I don’t see how you are judging my statement and contradictary without putting words in my mouth that i am not saying. Please read my statement again without adding the extra text you keep reading that is not there where i suddenly declared peace at all cost. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/207 "2003-07-26T23:53:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*by the way, the word “Understand” does not mean the same thing as “support” nor “Sympathize”. > > it is quite possible to want to “Understand” something while condemning it. In fact it’s probably best demonstrated by the Criminal Profilers of the FBI. \*\* Which is the more effective strategery? “Understanding” terrorists, or “Killing” them? I submit the latter. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/208 "2003-07-26T23:54:37Z")
Well, if we get another hijack, do we move up to toaster ovens? BEcause I read an as-yet unconfirmed report that they might have tried to surrender, or were never offered such an opportunity. Not been confirmed, but has anyone else heard this? Or, maybe, you know, a George Foreman grill would be cool, too. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/209 "2003-07-26T23:54:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Which is the more effective strategery? “Understanding” terrorists, or “Killing” them? I submit the latter. \*\* The former would help you prevent creating more. Try a two pronged approach sometime, the world is not Black and White, you are not always the good guy. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/210 "2003-07-27T00:19:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*The former would help you prevent creating more. Try a two pronged approach sometime, the world is not Black and White, you are not always the good guy. \*\* Problem is, the lefties don’t want a two pronged approach, they favor just one approach, trying to Understand. Plus marches and protests and throwing rocks at Starbuck’s. Not sure where that will get us, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/211 "2003-07-27T00:27:56Z")
Might make their coffee taste better… (and not all lefties, mind you…) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/212 "2003-07-27T00:49:54Z")
There are so many ways of making the world a better place! Do you really need to ask how? You start with what you can do. You, personally, don’t have to take on the whole world. You start by supporting organizations that help to free political prisoners (Amnesty International) or help to heal (Doctors Without Borders) or provide necessities (World Vision). As for the logistics of feeding the world’s hungry, I can’t think of a better way to use our military. It _is_ a matter of defense. Wouldn’t well-fed, healthy, politically involved people be less likely to fall victim to the monsters of this world? How do the monsters of the world get to be monsters? They begin by thinking that there is nothing they can do to make their world better. That’s the big lie they tell themselves. They begin to be indifferent to the needs of others and to mock their sensitivities. They _con_ the gullible. They manipulate. They find pleasure in annihilating their enemies. They gloat. They belittle. They stop listening. They lose perspective and balance. And then after they finished posting at SDMB, they forget to look in the mirror. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/213 "2003-07-27T01:03:46Z")
**Zoe** , did you get a chance to read my reply to you before it was hamstered today? If not, I’ll be happy to reconstruct it. Your polite questions deserved an answer and I did my best to respond to them. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/214 "2003-07-27T01:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\*Wouldn’t well-fed, healthy, politically involved people be less likely to fall victim to the monsters of this world? > > How do the monsters of the world get to be monsters? They begin by thinking that there is nothing they can do to make their world better. That’s the big lie they tell themselves. They begin to be indifferent to the needs of others and to mock their sensitivities. They _con_ the gullible. They manipulate. They find pleasure in annihilating their enemies. They gloat. They belittle. They stop listening. They lose perspective and balance. > > \*\* My God! Let’s all sing Kum By Ya at them! That ought to make them change their mind! That paragraph is so chock full of starry eyed idealism, grounded in fantsyland, that I don’t know where to start. Monsters start by thinking there is nothing they can do to make the world better? Maybe “monsters” in Beverly Hills terms, but in the real world, they are people who do all of those other things you list, not because they lose perspective or balance, not because they dispair of “making the world better”, but because they can acrue power and feed their base desires. They can rape and plunder and pillage to their heart’ content, and nobody can stop them. They gain all kinds of material posessions and entire legions of hangers on who live to kiss their ass and feed their mighty ego. “They stop listening”? We’re talking about people who can casually consider genocide as a solution to their problems, not recalcitrant third graders! Your first two paragraphs were pretty good, however. You really need to rethink the third in terms of the real world, however. If you’ve been following this thread, I asked “how?” earlier. Tars answers: > [@](#): > > Well, having a government that didn’t set up these monsters in the first place would be a good start. so would going after all the monsters in the world instead of just the ones sitting on oil fields. If you notice i didn’t say we shouldn’t engage in violence, i was stating we should work for a world where these people don’t have a chance to get power. Making sure countries are developed enough that they can provide food for their citizens would be a good start. That would be more effective than just making food shipments. People who are not desparate are less likely to listen to any crazed wacko who comes along wanting to blow people up. Plus more infrastructure in a country means more people have the resources to buy products, so it is a good long term business decision. There, a question, an answer, how hard is that? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/215 "2003-07-27T01:31:20Z")
**milroyj**. said > [@](#): > > Problem is, the lefties don’t want a two pronged approach, they favor just one approach, trying to Understand. Plus marches and protests and throwing rocks at Starbuck’s. Not sure where that will get us, though. Could you not use rather nebulous terms like “lefties?” Some of us might object to the tar. We’re not all black and white in our opinions, just as most “righties” are individuals. Many “righties” would characterize your posts as ultra-conservative thinking. At least the ones who think. Why Starbucks is injected into the thread is beyond this poor liberal’s understanding. As for marching and protest, do I understand you to imply that only “lefties” march and protest? > [@](#): > > Which is the more effective strategery? “Understanding” terrorists, or “Killing” them? I submit the latter. Have you quit beating your wife?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/216 "2003-07-27T12:58:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > **milroyj. said > Could you not use rather nebulous terms like “lefties?” Some of us might object to the tar.** Oh, boo hoo. Maybe I will when the rest of you stop blaming the world’s woes on Americans, Republicans, and/or Capitalists. > [@](#): > > As for marching and protest, do I understand you to imply that only “lefties” march and protest? When was the last “rightie” protest march, because I must have missed the memo. You know, the kind of protest that involves destruction of property, disruption of economic activity, attacking police, and other random idiocy? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/217 "2003-07-28T07:00:21Z")
Righties don’t bother with protest marches – it’s beneath them. Easier instead to just lay off several thousand workers, shut down a few factories, lobby politicians to slash social services further, and reap the profits when the company’s stock jumps up another three points. Not only does that disrupt more lives and wreak more economic damage, but you get the benefit of profiting from it, too. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/218 "2003-07-28T10:50:48Z")
> [@](#): > > When was the last “rightie” protest march, because I must have missed the memo. You mean like [These folks?](http://www.marchforlife.org/) There’s more…everybody marches in DC…Moonies, gun freaks, religious extremists, the KKK, as well as anti-gun, anti-war, anti-everything. ---
**Author:** ![brian\_jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@brian\_jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brian_jones)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/219 "2003-07-28T17:56:33Z")
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded. ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/220 "2003-07-28T18:02:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by brian jones \* > \*\*Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded. \*\* Yes, folks, I checked. His only other post is just as insightful, witty and inspired. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268.md?page=12)