# A Sympathy Card for Saddam **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268 "2003-07-22T23:46:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/161 "2003-07-24T21:11:27Z")
**Joey** , a splendid point has already been made. If you accept that Jesus is Lord, then Odai’s and Qusai’s acts were all intended by Him. If so, then their eventual death and destruction must also have been part of His plan. Am I not allowed to feel joy and fulfillment at the fruition of the Lord’s plans? [exploding Frink-O-Matic irony meter sounds] ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/162 "2003-07-24T21:31:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*Jesus Christ. Please show one place in this thread, or any thread, for that matter, where I said that the two individuals in question were not human beings. > > If you can’t do that, tear down your straw man and shut up. \*\* Wow! Did I call that one or what? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cuauhtemoc \* > \*\*Now I’ll wait for you to come back and whine that I’m misrepresenting your position, conveniently forgetting how you twisted my words beyond recognition just because you were in the mood for a flamefest. > \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/163 "2003-07-24T21:55:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > I apologize to Zenster for all of the bruhaha, but for the last time, I’m not bemoaning or regreting or lamenting or sympathizing or weeping for THE DEATH OF UDAY AND QUSAY HUSSEIN. It is the only way their lives could have ended, as far as I can tell, with their history of violence and terror. THE ONLY WAY. > > But on page three Zenster mentioned dancing on their grave and shouting hallelujah, and that strikes me as “raucous partying” (not on my personal scale of parties but in terms of reacting to death). > > I apologize for dragging down your thread Zenster. Carry on. Ummm … **Jar** , I specifically said that had _ **I** _ committed their misdeeds, then _ **I** _ would expect people to dance on _ **my** _ grave singing “Hallelujah!” What part of: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > … had I spent a lifetime of maiming, raping and torturing people I would not hope for a single shred of mercy. What I would expect is to have my head blown off and that people would dance on my grave singing “Hallelujah!” did you not understand? This is how _ **I** _ would expect to be treated. This is what drives my own perception of “do unto others” in this thread. I have no compunctions wishing upon others that which I would just as easily wish upon myself as well. People seem to be having a really tough time with this concept. As you can see, that is absolutely ripping my heart out. **Jar** , you so frequently seek to antagonize me that your apology doesn’t have much face value. Feel free to correct me if you’re truly feeling contrite here. Until I hear otherwise, the aforementioned stands. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/164 "2003-07-24T22:01:12Z")
You get no points for “calling it” when that’s what you’re doing. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cuauhtemoc \* > \*\*I understand the “No True Scotsman” fallacy just fucking fine, thanks, and **Weirddave** was guilty of it when he said that we “reaffirm our humanity” when we classify ourselves differently from the worst examples of humanity. There’s your quote. I ask again for a cite where I said that the sons of Saddam were not human and that the rest of us were. See, what you do is you highlight the text in question with the left button of your mouse, then you right click and select “copy”. You come to the little reply window and type in ```auto [QUOTE] *Originally posted by Weirddave * ``` then you right click again and select “paste”. Then you close the quote. Oh, wait, that won’t work because the text in question dosen’t exist because _you made it up!_ Nevermind. As to “being in the mood for a flamefest”, you called the tune by insulting me out of nowhere, don’t whine now that I’m making you pay the piper. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/165 "2003-07-24T22:58:44Z")
I appreciate the opportunity Master Zenster to kneel at your feet and apologize again, may that it please you. :rolleyes: Here it is: I’m feeling contrite for not, apparently, being able to correctly or clearly voice my opinion on the subject, not for how I feel about said subject. I have a lot of issues with you, Zenster, but there was no reason for me to make this another one I suppose. It was just something I felt strongly about, and decided to voice my opinion. If you feel I ‘frequently’ seek to antagonize you, I’m sorry. We obviously disagree on fundamental moral stances, and that’s ok. If I could leave you with an anecdote though, I’d like to. My cousin was beaten to death in his house, and his murderer immediately found. He plead guilty, said he LOVED doing it, and even flipped off my cousin’s father in the court room at sentencing. I think he got life (honestly, it was a long time ago, I don’t remember exactly). My family didn’t jump up and cheer and scream “in your FACE MURDERER!” when he was sentenced, they simply collapsed in tears that the whole nightmare was finally closed behind them. NO, I’m not comparing the Army to murderers, no I’m not saying that I ‘feel bad’ for the hussein brothers…what I am saying is: reading the phrase: > [@](#): > > Paying hard earned tax dollars in order to shrink your gene pool has been a genuine and personal pleasure. struck me as odd, since I can’t imagine the killing or destruction of ANYONE a ‘genuine personal pleasure’. Maybe I read too much into it. If so, then I sincerely apologize. For real. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/166 "2003-07-25T02:23:15Z")
**Jar** , apology accepted. Now kindly ram the “Master Zen” and “kneel at your feet” shit up your fucking ass! It makes it more than a little hard to believe you when you start off with such shit. I don’t follow you around these forums shitting on you whenever you open a thread. Have you noticed something? It’s only when you come into one of my threads and start your pissing and moaning that the sparks fly. For fucks sake! It’s fine to have an opinion and to share your thoughts. I’ll never disagree with that, in fact I encourage it. Just leave all your fucking rolleyes at the bloody stinking door. If you have something to say, say it. But use logic and reason, not all of your pissy moralizing and bullshit. I’d really like to think that you meant your apology. Your off-the-bat snideness and horseshit little rolleyes smilie instantly neutralized such thoughts. Look real closely at your last post. If I had apologized in that same manner to you for tossing your “murderers” quote back in your face after you had already disavowed it, would you have taken my apology seriously? Pound some sand up your ass and think it over a bit. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/167 "2003-07-25T02:39:24Z")
How many times do I get to do this before everyone gets bored of it. I said I was sorry for what I was sorry for and expressed a distaste for you making me repeat my apology because the first wasn’t enough. I’m sorry that we are unable to see eye to eye on this issue and apparently never will. Fin. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/168 "2003-07-25T05:11:11Z")
**jar** , I can’t speak for everyone here, only for myself. Now that you left out all of the sarcasm and rolleyes, I’ll do my best to accept your apology in the spirit that it was tendered. For the life of me I do not know why you have chosen to be so antagonistic towards me. I can’t recall ever once going out of my way to hurt your feelings or make fun of you. Neither can I recall posting in even a single one of your threads save maybe long, long ago before I might have realized what sort of animosity you bore towards me. You, on the other hand, have jumped in on some of the nastiest threads about me and only poured gasoline on the flames. I honestly wish I knew why. Disagreeing with someone on a given topic is entirely different from casting aspersions about the very core of their personality. You have felt free to do both without making much distinction between the two. Maybe by now you’ve noticed how little ice that cuts with me. Due to your own actions, your presence is now loaded with lots of negative conotations. If you can show up in some of my threads without all the vitriol and instead conduct yourself in some sort of calm and peacable way, I may take you more seriously. Until that time, please don’t count on anything except more of what you’ve gotten here. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/169 "2003-07-25T06:50:01Z")
Hey, I’m raucously partying over their deaths, and I don’t feel the least bit of guilt over it. Too damn bad they were too torn up to be revived and killed again. Beer, anyone? This one has a nice smoky flavor, like I imagine the air in the “safe room” tasted after that TOW missile detonated. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/170 "2003-07-25T07:29:44Z")
[clinks virtual glass of Scotch with **Ogre** ’s online beer] A MPSIMS thread mentions how their bodies were found in the bathroom. Imagine that! Finding two turds in a toilet. What were the chances? A fitting end for such a pair of enormous shits. I guess even if no one else ever did, we finally taught them how to “TOW” the line. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/171 "2003-07-25T13:27:44Z")
I wasn’t aware that I had posted in this thread with any vitriol and in fact tried very hard to address the issues in a calm and even manner, which is something I’m working on in my personal as well as online live. I’ve long disagreed with many aspects of your online persona which may or may not spill over into your real life, and when I notice them popping up (which seems to be a lot lately) I’m driven to comment on them. I’m sorry if your threads have been ruined by my presence (Although I must say my perfume adds a sort of…fruity air), but I also know that, in this thread in particular, I’m not really the sole voice of dissent on the issue. If I was, I may rethink my position. Again, sorry, I really mean it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/172 "2003-07-25T13:51:01Z")
Merijeek > [@](#): > > Who gives a fuck? He allowed those two to do the things they did, right? So, He’s a meanie for not stepping in and stopping them, is that it? If He didn’t allow people the freedom of moral will then what would He be, a narrow-minded slave owner? Do you also blame someone else for your own lousy decisions, or do you do this only on behalf of third parties? ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/173 "2003-07-25T15:12:37Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* \*\*I ask again for a cite where I said that the sons of Saddam were not human and that the rest of us were. See, what you do is you highlight the text in question with the left button of your mouse, then you right click and select “copy”. You come to the little reply window and type in ```auto [QUOTE] *Originally posted by Weirddave * ``` then you right click again and select “paste”. Then you close the quote. Oh, wait, that won’t work because the text in question dosen’t exist because _you made it up!_ Nevermind. As to “being in the mood for a flamefest”, you called the tune by insulting me out of nowhere, don’t whine now that I’m making you pay the piper. \*\* [/QUOTE] **Weirddave** , **Zenster** said he loved humanity. I posited that the very evil being decried in this thread is an _aspect_ of humanity. I interpreted your first post - fairly, I think - as an example of the line of thinking that tends to put “humanity” in a positive light that it doesn’t always deserve. You said that, by placing ourselves in a different category than evil men, that we “reaffirm” our humanity. My response to that is, how does it reaffirm our humanity when evil itself is an _aspect_ of humanity? After all, depending on one’s religious beliefs, isn’t it possible to argue that humans _invented_ evil? There is a tendency to say of evil people “They’re not like us”. I’d prefer not to forget that, no matter how evil someone is, I share something with them. As a human, I have the capacity for evil and cruelty. Remembering what kinds of horror evil and cruelty can lead to helps me to be more vigilant against it in my own person. Whooping it up and dancing on evil people’s graves makes it easier to forget that _I’m_ a human being with human failings, and could find myself walking the path of evil if I’m not careful. Was it the word “bullshit” that you objected to? I apologize, I didn’t mean it as a personal insult against you. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/174 "2003-07-25T15:54:32Z")
Whal, that’s prutty durn fair of you, cuauhtemoc. I apologise for getting my back up like a scalded cat as well. OK, enough John Wayne. Actually, your last post is pretty clear, and I would agree with it. It is important to remember that, given the right combination of circumstances, we could have turned out just like Uday and Qusay. ( Note, I don’t think that if either one of us was taken _now_ (well, a year or so back )and dropped in their shoes that we would act like they did, but if we had been taken as babies and placed with Saddam and his wife to raise? Sure, I can easily believe it ) However, my point was in direct response to those lamenting about what a tradgedy it was that “we had to go and…_wrings hands_ KILL these two monsters, after all, they are human beings, just like us” and those who were claiming that doing so somehow reduces our own humanity. I disagree on both points. By embracing the dark part of their human nature and wallowing in it, these two forfited whatever protection their humanity provided. In other words, if a person’s “humanity” is composed of two parts, one half good, one half evil, a person who so totally rejects the “good” half that it might as well not exist, a Hitler, a Pol Pot, a Uday Hussien, then they have effectively abandoned their humanity and should be shot down without regret. Nor, do I think doing so “lessens” our own humanity. Taking out people who have abandoned their humanity by becoming pure evil is nothing more than self defense. I’m glad they’re dead, but I haven’t been throwing a party. Many Iraqis have, and I submit that they are in a better position to judge these men than we are. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/175 "2003-07-25T17:18:39Z")
**jarbabyj** , I’m going to do my best to accept your apology. You’ve left the sacrcastic crap out of enough times now where I would like to believe you. It’s quite clear that you have problems with my online persona, there’s some people who do as well. Then again, there’s another **29,000 members** (or more) here who do not. Here’s a suggestion; _Save your breath._ Again, you are always free to participate in whatever threads I start, whenever you feel like it. I neither have control over that nor do I enjoy playing the exclusionary sort of bullshit games that others here seem to revel in. However, try to remember that you do not always _have_ to chime in. No one’s holding a gun to your head and telling you to post in my threads. Notice the complete and utter absence of my posts in your threads? I’ll tell you why.\* I couldn’t be bothered.\* It’s just that simple. If I don’t like someone, I usually stay away from them. I have better things to do with my life than trying to change people I don’t like. In the case of changing the lives of Odai and Qusai Hussein, I was happy to let my tax dollars do the talking. Did you notice how many other people felt precisely as I did on the subject? If you feel so “driven” to comment on what I write, be prepared to back up what you have to say with rational and logical reasoning and not a lot of sermons or moralizing. You have indulged in some really nasty garbage in the past and I’m not going to take a shine to you anytime soon. It’s exactly your sort of foul tempered and ill mannered conduct that wins you a free dose of my dislike. Do I come into your threads and try to lecture you? No. Why? Because I have no interest in changing you or having anything to do with you. Why are you so compelled to enter my threads and do what I avoid? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > **I wasn’t aware that I had posted in this thread with any vitriol and in fact tried very hard to address the issues in a calm and even manner** , which is something I’m working on in my personal as well as online live. > > **I’ve long disagreed with many aspects of your online persona which may or may not spill over into your real life** , and when I notice them popping up (which seems to be a lot lately) I’m driven to comment on them. I’m sorry if your threads have been ruined by my presence (Although I must say my perfume adds a sort of…fruity air), but I also know that, in this thread in particular, I’m not really the sole voice of dissent on the issue. If I was, I may rethink my position. > > Again, sorry, I really mean it. [sup]BOLDING ADDED[/sup] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > … but somehow, to actually sit back and wring my hands and compose ‘hilarious’ OPs about their demise seems a bit…monstrous and brutal on your part … > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > … just because they had turned into animals doesn’t mean we have to. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > I appreciate your one man battle to eliminate evil, Zenster … > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > … oh but then you wouldn’t be able to stand on your 50 mile high horse … > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > I appreciate the opportunity Master Zenster to kneel at your feet and apologize again, may that it please you. :rolleyes: … Let’s see, I’m a bit of a “ **monstrous** ” and “ **brutal** ” “ **animal** ” waging a “ **one man battle to eliminate evil** ” on a “ **50 mile high horse** ” and you appreciate the opportunity to “ **kneel** ” and “ **apologize** ” at the feet of “ **Master Zenster**.” Let me give you a clue **jarbabyj**. Your “perfume” _doesn’t_ add a “sort of…fruity air” to my thread. The proper adjective likewise begins with an “f” but is most definitely not the word “fruity.” To be polite, I’ll call it smarmy, condescending and intentionally offensive. You take another petite little backhanded swipe at my personal life while tendering yet another heartfelt apology in case you have ruined my thread. The only thing you have ruined is my ability to take you the least bit seriously. You come across as a spiteful, whinging, vindictive little prinking carper who has nothing better to do than expend a great of effort on pointing up what you perceive to be the flaws of others. You talk about trying “very hard to address the issues in a calm and even manner” but such a statement comes across as only so much lip service in the face of your real words. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/176 "2003-07-25T18:54:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*Actually, your last post is pretty clear, and I would agree with it. \*\* I guess we agree on this more than we thought we did, then. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/177 "2003-07-25T19:22:06Z")
I have no prior beef with anyone here, but… I would have to agree with **jar**. Dancing on someone’s grave is a pretty disgusting thing to do. It’s one thing to say, “Boy, I’m glad he’s gone so no one else will have to suffer.” It’s quite another to hoot and holler like you’re on the Jerry Springer Show (no disrespect to Mr. Springer, of course…:)). But hey, if it makes you feel better then go ahead. Just don’t be shocked when some people think it reflects poorly on your character. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/178 "2003-07-25T20:43:31Z")
I’m still not celebrating over someone’s death. I think my time would be better spent working on a world where such monsters don’t get a chance to proliferate. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/179 "2003-07-25T20:49:18Z")
There’s something that I think is missing from this thread–WHEN exactly the person who hears the news is “celebrating”. My office was ringing who “all RIGHTS!” and “About f\*\*\*\* TIME!” when we got the news on Tuesday. People would tell each other and smile, not from ear to ear, but with the satisfaction of knowing that the stock of evil in the world had just gone down a lot. But if you’re smiling three days later, there may have a problem. So, if somebody familiar with the details of the crimes these two devils that walked like men committed wanted to whoop it up a little when they first heard the news, let them vent. The time for reflection and analysis, IMO, started on Tuesday night or so. ---
**Author:** ![kellibelli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e480ec/32.png) [@kellibelli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellibelli)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268/180 "2003-07-25T20:50:02Z")
I have never seen an apology accepted so poorly, grats! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-sympathy-card-for-saddam/190268.md?page=10)