# A thought about the death penalty **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457 "2015-05-21T00:12:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457/21 "2015-05-21T15:48:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Assisted suicide-a right only for those that have committed murder? > Does that _really_ work for you? No, I wouldn’t so limit it. Is that _really_ your objection? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457/22 "2015-05-21T15:49:58Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > I can’t help but think of the false positives. Imagine finding out that an innocent person was executed for the sake of giving you closure. [Justice Scalia is OK with that.](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/09/henry_lee_mccollum_cleared_by_dna_evidence_in_north_carolina_after_spending.2.html) > [@](#): > > “This court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is ‘actually’ innocent.” The quotation marks on \*actually \*are his own. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457/23 "2015-05-21T15:53:41Z")
Well, we can’t very well execute a multiple murderer _twice_. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457/24 "2015-05-21T16:02:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’d happily wager with you, however, that a great many more people have been killed by convicted murders who’ve not been executed than have ever been wrongfully executed for a crime they didn’t commit. Of course then there are those people who were killed by a criminal who would have been killed by convicted murders had they not been executed. > [@katpohl](#): > > The only closure there is , is the closing of her coffin for the last time . > But, the knowing that her killer is not walking around experiencing what he deprived her of and that he won’t ever kill someone else daughter . Goes a long way in helping me to deal and heal … Of course your experience is somewhat different from what goes on in the case of convicted killers. It isn’t just reading in the newspaper, “Oh, he’s dead”. First there is the trail, then there is the sentencing hearing, then there is the appeal, then there are a number of delaying actions and appeals, then there is the appeal to the governor for clemancy, then there is the media coverage of the controversy over the execution, then finally the execution. So over the decades it takes to go from conviction to death, the issue will keep popping up and forcing you to give it your attention. I fortunately have never had to deal with anything like this, and if I had I may feel differently, but personally I would rather see the time to put him behind me as the day he was sent off to rot in prison, then spend a decade or longer of him periodically being brought into my foreground. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457/25 "2015-05-21T16:07:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > No, I wouldn’t so limit it. Is that _really_ your objection? No. My real objection is people trying to pretend that they are wanting the death penalty as some sort of favor for the person being killed. ---
**Author:** ![katpohl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b782af/32.png) [@katpohl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/katpohl)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457/26 "2015-05-21T21:53:43Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Of course then there are those people who were killed by a criminal who would have been killed by convicted murders had they not been executed. > > Of course your experience is somewhat different from what goes on in the case of convicted killers. It isn’t just reading in the newspaper, “Oh, he’s dead”. First there is the trail, then there is the sentencing hearing, then there is the appeal, then there are a number of delaying actions and appeals, then there is the appeal to the governor for clemancy, then there is the media coverage of the controversy over the execution, then finally the execution. So over the decades it takes to go from conviction to death, the issue will keep popping up and forcing you to give it your attention. > > I fortunately have never had to deal with anything like this, and if I had I may feel differently, but personally I would rather see the time to put him behind me as the day he was sent off to rot in prison, then spend a decade or longer of him periodically being brought into my foreground. The state where I live did away with the death penalty just a few years before my daughters death , so even when he turned his self in and charges were brought against him . This state also seems to be pretty easy on DWI that causes death , one guy killed a whole family while drunk and driving on a suspended licenses , plus he already had several DWI convictions , he got less then a decade and was out in less then five years for good time . So I wasn’t expecting much of anything just because the guy had turned his self in and had confessed to being the driver that had caused her death . The only reason I posted here in this thread was to give a bit of reality to the two posters that were going back and forth about the families of victims and closure . Since my state doesn’t have the death penalty anymore, It really doesn’t matter if I am for or against it . But for the record , I’m 100 % in favor of the death penalty in cases of child rape/ molestation / murder and serials killers . ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457/27 "2015-05-21T22:27:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No. My real objection is people trying to pretend that they are wanting the death penalty as some sort of favor for the person being killed. Well, you’re in luck! If someone borrows a book from the library, and we announce that he can keep it for a couple of weeks but will start incurring a fine if he keeps it longer – well, look, if he asks whether we’re applying that fine as some sort of favor to him, I’ll blink in surprise and reply that, _er, no; we’re not; what an odd thing to say._ Step into a boxing ring with me, and touch gloves, and – well, I’d start hitting you, because, hey, that’s the _deal,_ right? If I wanted to do you a favor, I guess dropping my guard and letting you hit me would qualify – but if I don’t feel like doing you a favor, I’ll just start doing my level best to win the fight. If I put up a sign that says TRESPASSERS WILL BE PROSECUTED, and you decide to trespass, the ensuing prosecution _isn’t_ meant as a favor to you. And et cetera. Dunno where you got the idea it’s meant as a favor, but if that’s your real objection, consider it _gone_. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457/28 "2015-05-21T23:43:18Z")
Good-That means we won’t have to deal with any more of that “assisted suicide” euphemistic crap anymore. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457/29 "2015-05-21T23:59:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Good-That means we won’t have to deal with any more of that “assisted suicide” euphemistic crap anymore. I wasn’t aware that it’s a euphemism. We refer, straightforwardly, to _“suicide by cop”_; if some criminal wants to commit _“suicide by me”_, I’d shrug and, y’know, assist. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457/30 "2015-05-22T00:09:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And this is why you so often see the family and loved ones of murder victims attending executions of their loved one’s killer, even decades after the fact and often having to travel great distances to do so? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Would it make any difference if I had? Or would I hear dismissals because ‘anecdotes are not proof’? > > Still, to answer your question, no I haven’t. But I’ve seen and heard them speak on TV many times and I’ve read what many others have had to say. Now and then there’s a family who tries to take what they consider the high road and plead for the killer to be spared, but experience tells me that only happens about once in twenty times…if that much. > > Most people want to see their loved one’s killer get the maximum punishment possible. This is really not up for dispute in any honest and reasonable way. Both of these are examples of what people may feel \*before \*an execution. I do agree with you that people \*anticipate \*closure. I don’t think you’ve demonstrated that most (or all) feel such closure when it’s actually done. A recent study has found that they don’t: > [@](#): > > Researchers from the University of Minnesota and from the University of Texas at Austin conducted the survey. Minnesota has no death penalty, and Texas leads the nation in executions. > Researchers conducted personal interviews then compared family survivors’ experiences in Minnesota with those in Texas. The victim’s family members in Minnesota showed higher levels of physical, psychological, and behavior health, than those in Texas. They also showed a higher level of satisfaction with the criminal justice system. > **[CBS News - Breaking news, 24/7 live streaming news & top stories](https://www.cbsnews.com/)** > > Watch CBS News live and get the latest, breaking news headlines of the day for national news and world news today. Which is congruent with a 2007 study: > [@](#): > > Vollum found that the victims’ loved ones reported experiencing feelings of peace or relief in only 17% of the more than 150 cases in which they made public statements; they reported feeling a sense of closure in only 2.5% of those cases. By contrast, in 20% of cases, they explicitly said the execution did not bring them healing or closure. [Covictims of capital murder: statements of victims' family members and friends made at the time of execution - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18064972) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-about-the-death-penalty/720457.md?page=1)