# A thought for Excalibre **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2006, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782 "2006-06-15T06:17:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/161 "2006-06-16T17:56:52Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] They have a vaccine for that. [/QUOTE] I’m suddenly unable to rid my brain of the image of a child infected with the weasles. “Don’t scratch, honey, it’ll make them worse.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/162 "2006-06-16T18:03:18Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] I’m suddenly unable to rid my brain of the image of a child infected with the weasles. “Don’t scratch, honey, it’ll make them worse.” [/QUOTE] Now, see- _that’s_ funny. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/163 "2006-06-16T18:05:22Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] I’m suddenly unable to rid my brain of the image of a child infected with the weasles. “Don’t scratch, honey, it’ll make them worse.” [/QUOTE] [It could be worse!](http://www.science.uva.nl/~robbert/zappa/files/jpg/Weasels_Ripped_My_Flesh.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/164 "2006-06-16T18:16:14Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] If someone actually makes a joke and people don’t get it, there’s nothing to blame the joker for (except conceivably not being funny, but there’s no rule against that.) But I have seen people say something ridiculous or just confused - and clearly _not_ a joke - get called on it, and yell “WHOOSH!” I’m not sure if those people were trolling in the first place or if they don’t understand what the word means. But I’m not convinced that every time a person proclaims a whoosh that it’s actually a joke that didn’t take. [/QUOTE] Fair point, there are exceptions, but **DrDeth** ’s first post was phrased as an absolute: “WHOOSH = Trolling,” and his follow ups have refined that to _most_ whooshes being trolling. Both are ridiculous overstatments, and his particular example in this thread is extrordinarily poor. Even if **dnooman** hadn’t originally intended his comment as a joke (and I thought it was pretty transparently so, and pretty funny, to boot) there’s still nothing remotely troll-like about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/165 "2006-06-16T18:59:28Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] IMHO “WHOOSH” = “I am being a Troll”. :mad: And sorry **Excalibre** , your post to **bup** about Harry Potter \*was \* condesending. Many dudes seem to think “literature must be dense, dark & hard to understand to be great”. Not so at all. I happen to think Huckleberry Finn is the greatest work of literature for _it’s_ era, and it is enjoyable, easy to read, and \*on the surface \* aimed at kids also. Not that I am saying the I think Harry Potter is \*great \* Lit myself (or that Rowling is as deep or can write anywhere near as well as Twain), but certainly **bup** ’s _opinion_ of it is a reasonable stand to take- hardly “ignorant”. And your \*opinion \* just plain sounds elitist- like the kind of person that thinks Joyce’s Ulysses is _great_ because he can’t understand it. :rolleyes: 😛 (Note, it’s _crap._- IMHO) [/QUOTE] You know what one of my first signs of a complete fucking moron is? Someone who thinks any kind of special emphasis on the word ‘opinion’ should be considered actual discussion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/166 "2006-06-16T19:09:44Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Fair point, there are exceptions, but **DrDeth** ’s first post was phrased as an absolute: “WHOOSH = Trolling,” and his follow ups have refined that to _most_ whooshes being trolling. Both are ridiculous overstatments, and his particular example in this thread is extrordinarily poor [/QUOTE] Absolutely, my first words on this _were_ over simplified and too generalistic. However, they were also one sentence of around 3 words. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/167 "2006-06-16T19:19:40Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Absolutely, my first words on this _were_ over simplified and too generalistic. However, they were also one sentence of around 3 words. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Yes indeed: it was not only a stupid idea, it was poorly articulated, to boot. For the record, your second words on the subject were _also_ over simplified and too generalistic. I don’t think you can fob off the poor quality of your arguments on simple word count, here. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/168 "2006-06-16T19:25:27Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] You know what one of my first signs of a complete fucking moron is? Someone who thinks any kind of special emphasis on the word ‘opinion’ should be considered actual discussion. [/QUOTE] Number two might be whining that good books are too hard to read and people who enjoy them are :: gasp of horror :: _elitists_. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/169 "2006-06-16T19:48:31Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] I don’t think Rowling is the next L. M. Montgomery, \ [/QUOTE] THAT’S for sure. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/170 "2006-06-16T19:51:55Z")
Sorry for the bad quote tag. Can a mod fix for me, please? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/171 "2006-06-16T22:01:01Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Right. And what a wonderful scam it is. A poster says something ignorant and foolish. A smarter and rather observant posters calls them on it. So, then all you have to say is “WHOOSH!” and suddenly it’s the \*other guy \* who is made to look like a fool, and _you’re_ oh-so-clever and funny. :rolleyes: Well, if I was to choose between \*\*Dijon Warlock \*\* and **dnooman** as to who is the fool- well… my choice wouldn’t be **Dijon Warlock**. So, by posting something stupid and attempting to cover it up by a “WOOSH!”, either you’re being a troll or disengenous. And, then dudes will defend the “WHOOSHer” by saying: _"you just don’t have a sense of humor_"- which could be right if the “WHOOSH” had any elements of humor in it at all. Sure, once in a great while a WHOOSH is completey obvious and even funny. But I think more often it’s just a weasle. [/QUOTE] So you go from “Whoosh=Troll” to “A whoosh is mostly either trolling or lieing and is only rarely actually funny.” Way to reach for a compromise ya humorless bastard. What I really love about this is just how much you know about the posters of the whooshes. It’s like you can read their minds over the internet. Spooooooky. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/172 "2006-06-16T23:06:54Z")
A Pit thread for \*\*Excalibre \*\*is now debating whether trolling is whooshing and whether Harry Potter is the literature of the century. I’ve only been Pitted once, but if only my Pit threads could go half so well. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/173 "2006-06-16T23:15:25Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] A Pit thread for \*\*Excalibre \*\*is now debating whether trolling is whooshing and whether Harry Potter is the literature of the century. I’ve only been Pitted once, but if only my Pit threads could go half so well. 🙂 [/QUOTE] heh, at least you’ve had threads about you! My threads and posts barely get noticed. Well, I am pretty new around here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/174 "2006-06-17T03:24:32Z")
> [@](#): > > **Guinastasia** : **roger** is a moron who refuses to accept that he might be wrong, even with subjects he knows absolutely nothing about (the civil rights movement in the US, for example). Despite being given cite after cite disproving his theories, he insists that we’re the ones who are wrong. If that’s not being willfully ignorant, then I’m the Queen of England. That particular thread is one that I haven’t read, but I will check it out. He’s no moron, but it isn’t beyond him to dig in his heels for the wrong reason. I probably generalized some from my own interactions with **roger**. I’ve always depended upon you to shoot straight with me, **Guin**. I always give consideration to your comments. Just wanted you to know. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/175 "2006-06-17T03:49:42Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] That particular thread is one that I haven’t read, but I will check it out. He’s no moron, but it isn’t beyond him to dig in his heels for the wrong reason. I probably generalized some from my own interactions with **roger**. I’ve always depended upon you to shoot straight with me, **Guin**. I always give consideration to your comments. Just wanted you to know. [/QUOTE] I wonder at your reference to me referring to questions as “ill-formed”; I did a search and it turns out I used the phrase earlier in this thread, in reference to discussions with **roger** on evolution (again, under his previous moniker, **bodswood** ; I’m not sure what the circumstances were that led him to register a different account when he subscribed, but those threads still use his old name.) Perhaps you missed the point. I spent a long time, as did many other people (who worked much harder than I did and knew much more about the subject.) I believe one of **bodswood** ’s threads reached thirteen pages. I showed as much patience as I could; one of the things you’ll find if you examine my posts in areas in which I have expertise - particularly linguistics - is that I try my darnedest to explain things well, and patiently, as I understand that people without the same knowledge don’t come to the subject matter with the same knowledge or perspective. I don’t think you’ll find any different in **bodswood** ’s evolution threads. I’m not perfect, but I try quite genuinely to fight ignorance. ANd sometimes, that’s simply not possible. Some people are not interested in learning. **rogwood** ’s intransigence in those threads exemplifies that attitude, should you care to slog through them. **roger** may be perfectly willing to discuss things with those with different perspectives - in fact, I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find him expounding on something to those who disagree with him (though I wouldn’t class that as something unique or peculiar to **roger** either.) But he has never shown much willingness to listen to others. **Guinastasia** ’s reference to the United Negro College Fund thread is perfectly apt (search GQ if you want to see it.) He made an assertion about the use of the word “negro”, backed with one ambiguous line from one dictionary. He was readily contradicted with many pieces of very strong evidence from **tomndebb** and (IIRC) **samclem**. He persisted in his belief. He found fault with every piece of evidence presented to him, though they were hard to contest and, frankly, impossible to contest rationally. He repeated his claim over and over until the thread was locked, and when the mods told him that if he wanted a debate over race relations to take it to GD, disingenuously claimed in _that_ thread that his first was extremely popular and he was opening the debate on a special request from the mods. **roger** is an entertaining fellow, but he has never particularly shown any inclination to remedy his own ignorance, and I’ve never known him to do much for mine, either. I rather enjoyed having him around - while he verged into trolling quite often, he was also rather entertaining. But either you have very little experience with trying to discuss matters with him, or you’re giving me what I think is a rather unjust condemnation, if you consider my efforts lacking in comparison with his. You speak from the perspective of a teacher; perhaps it’s the scholar in me, but it strains my patience when people cling as hard as they can to falsehood. I’m not sure of your methods - perhaps you have found ways to reach people far more hardened in their commitment to ignorance than **roger** , and if so, I salute you. But if you’re condemning me for calling his attempts to challenge those he asked for knowledge “ill-formed”, then it’s because you didn’t read the original threads. I can only do what I can do, and frankly, I did a lot in those threads. The implication that I dismissed him for being “ignorant” or asking “ill-formed questions” is simply false, and if you had looked at the threads I referenced before creating your opinion, you would have seen that. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/176 "2006-06-17T07:55:01Z")
> [@](#): > > **Excalibre** : The implication that I dismissed him for being “ignorant” or asking “ill-formed questions” is simply false, and if you had looked at the threads I referenced before creating your opinion, you would have seen that. My impression that you dismissed him in part for those reasons is based on the fact that you felt the need to mention that you saw these shortcomings in him. They _are_, after all, dismissive statements. And you “do not suffer fools gladly.” On the other hand, you say that you try your darndest to explain things well and patiently. And you really do…usually…try…for a while. > [@](#): > > But he has never shown much willingness to listen to others. Guinastasia’s reference to the United Negro College Fund thread is perfectly apt (search GQ if you want to see it.) I have now read that disasterous thread in its entirety and I am at a loss as to why he was so relentless in that thread. But I disagree with you that he has _never_ shown much willingness to listen to others. In my opinion he doesn’t always show it by saying that he’s had a big change of mind. He simply takes a subtle interest in people who are different from him. but who may have only one or two things in common with him. > [@](#): > > **roger** is an entertaining fellow, but he has never particularly shown any inclination to remedy his own ignorance. That is so not true! He spends so much of his time filling in the gaps in his ignorance and finding still more questions. Along the way he has picked up some preconceived notions and, like most exceptionally bright people, he has difficulty setting aside those notions – _especially_ when confronted with someone who processes the dynamics of intellect and personality in a similar way. > [@](#): > > But either you have very little experience with trying to discuss matters with him, or you’re giving me what I think is a rather unjust condemnation, if you consider my efforts lacking in comparison with his. You strike out on the first choice. If I have condemned you unjustly in comparison, perhaps it is because I know him better. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure of your methods - perhaps you have found ways to reach people far more hardened in their commitment to ignorance than roger… **Excalibre** , I truly believe that you do start out trying very hard to fight ignorance. But you defeat your purpose totally when you lose your cool and begin to berate and humiliate others. I haven’t mastered control of my temper either, but then I don’t have the “talent” for shredding people that you do. _That_, more than any other factor, is what keeps you from being a truly gifted teacher here. I wish you peace. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/177 "2006-06-17T08:16:17Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] IMHO “WHOOSH” = “I am being a Troll”. :mad: [/QUOTE] What. The. Fuck? You’re implying that I used an ages-old phrase, without knowing it’s meaning, and tried to cover my tracks with “whoosh, ha ha, I was joking”? Ever seen Da Ali G show, didn’t think so, it’s satire. Sarcasm, maybe you’ve heard of that word. I’m sure there are a few posters here that dislike me, you seem to be one, but I doubt you’ll find very many of them to agree with your theory in regards to my intentions. You think I’m a troll? Say it in so many words. Are you mad that I called **Dijon** a dumbass? In retrospect that was harsh, I apologized for it, and it seems that the two of us are cool about it. Where does your beef come from? Fucko off. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/178 "2006-06-17T08:26:17Z")
As a matter of fact, **DrDeth** , I’d really appreciate it if you started a pit thread about me. That is, if you have any sort of grudge against me. You need not cite reasons for disliking me, I’ll not ask for them. Just ask that everyone that feels the same about me say so. That way, I’ll have a list of people whom I’ve pissed off, and can make sure not to do it again. I’d do it myself, but self-pittings get lower ratings than Becker reruns. [sub]I’m not being sarcastic[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/179 "2006-06-17T11:15:49Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] I think it’s no secret that **Excalibre** and I dislike each other. Nevertheless, in all honesty, he contributes ten times as much value to the SDMB as those pinnacles of pretentious pontificatory **Roger Thornhill** and **Starving Artist** put together. [/QUOTE] …really? It was only a few months ago when **Excalibre** sent a private email to another doper that stated: **“I hope that in doing so I haven’t inadvertantly raped you.”** It was all part on one helluva ugly thread where both **Excalibre** and **Starving Artist** squared off. I don’t know how anyone could read that thread and come to the decision that **Excalibre** has ten times the value on this board of **Starving Artist** : there was a gentleman in that thread, and one right prick: I definately know who I value on these boards more… [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=353800&page=1&pp=50](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=353800&page=1&pp=50) …as for **Excalibre** ’s comments about **Starving** sucking up to **Liberal** , have you read any of the exchanges between myself and **Starving Artist** on these boards? Good lord, you seem to get all upset because a couple of people are _nice_ to each other on the internet. Civility, manners, respect and decency seem to be foreign words to you. **Liberal** pays **Starving Artist** a compliment, and **Starving** responds with a thanks, and you choose to mock this? Get a life man… ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782/180 "2006-06-17T11:47:56Z")
[QUOTE=Banquet Bear] Good lord, you seem to get all upset because a couple of people are _nice_ to each other on the internet. Civility, manners, respect and decency seem to be foreign words to you. **Liberal** pays **Starving Artist** a compliment, and **Starving** responds with a thanks, and you choose to mock this? [/QUOTE] I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed this. But it’s interesting to see **SA** attacked for “sucking up” (read: being polite and friendly with posters) and **What Exit** insulted for being too polite. If anything, **Exit** is one of the more valuable Dopers here. Yes, he’s not the single most brilliant poster in the world, but he’s no slouch, and he’s got a very good heart. I look to posters like him and **Lefty** when I’m actively trying to concentrate on my tone, which is not as frequent as I’d like. And, yeah… I know I’ve got my own issues with posting in anger, but damn, it’s like some people get all frothy if others -aren’t- assholes. Seems some people would be more at home on various bords dedicated to nothing other than spite and venom than the Dope. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thought-for-excalibre/360782.md?page=10)