# A thread disappeared **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 14, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981 "2009-09-14T00:54:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/61 "2009-09-15T02:40:00Z")
Speaking of changing fonts… I used Stylish to change the post font from Trebuchet to ‘Helvetica Neue’ and it’s quite nice. I’ll probably end up completely restyling it for myself one of these days, perhaps something in the spirit of [this](http://www.iamadtaylor.com/helvetical/) and [this](http://helvetireader.com/). ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/62 "2009-09-15T06:20:20Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What you say is absolutely true. We do have to be careful. We, the membership, I mean. What wierdaaron has done is offer to have his code tested and examined by members with the expertise to see whether his code has security holes. That’s the beauty of it. It’s not just a great idea; it’s something he’s letting us look at from under the hood. > > The same kind of caveat emptor advice applies to everyday life, I think. Get a mechanic to look at any used car you want to buy. Hire a plumber to fix the leaky pipe before you flood the kitchen. Let the septic tank guy have a look at whether you’re getting close to the top. We’re doing that here — having a look at whether it’s okay. By open invitation. Oh, I agree, I think \*\*wierdaaron \*\* is to be commended for his initiative. My point was a general one. With anything involving scripts the mods need to examine the idea before its put on general offer to members. They would be the first to bear the blame if a malicious script did appear in a thread and they had made no attempt to check it. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/63 "2009-09-15T11:53:13Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Oh, I agree, I think \*\*wierdaaron \*\* is to be commended for his initiative. My point was a general one. With anything involving scripts the mods need to examine the idea before its put on general offer to members. They would be the first to bear the blame if a malicious script did appear in a thread and they had made no attempt to check it. Well, yeah, but it’s also not just a matter of blame. It’s also a matter of wanting our Message Boards to be safe. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/64 "2009-09-15T13:37:51Z")
Actually, with wierdaaron’s script, we couldn’t harm your message board; but your message board could harm us. (Still, your point is taken, and you’re right.) ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/65 "2009-09-16T16:36:41Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > And, not every mod is a computer expert. Serious, good faith question: Is there any mod who could be described as a computer expert, or who even does have a technical background? The only one I ever knew of was **xash** , and now that he’s stepped down, I’m not aware of anyone who has that kind of knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/66 "2009-09-16T18:17:42Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > First, being “condescending” is not, to my knowledge, a violation of the rules. If it were, we’d be closing down Cafe Society and Great Debates pronto. Being PERCEIVED as condescending, well, that can happen to someone saying “good morning.” > > Second, the original post said it was greasemonkey script, and contained links. Just because he SAID it was a greasemonkey script doesn’t mean that it was – not from a new poster we don’t know who hasn’t asked in advance. Heck, I get emails almost every day from people who say that if I click on their link, I’ll get a zillion dollars from Nigeria. A post that appears like that, out of the blue, we don’t know if it’s spam, viral, or what. > > And, not every mod is a computer expert. I certainly do not pretend to have a clue what a greasemonkey script is. > > One of our guiding principles is: all mod actions are reversible. It therefore seemed prudent to the mod who first saw this to move it away from public viewing, until it could be studied by those who DO know. Are the links legit and safe? Is it really what it says to be? Does it affect the boards in any other way? > > I fail to understand the uproar. I’m not sure what the time frame was, but we’re talking, what, about two hours (from the time it was moved out of sight until the time it was returned to visibility) for us to check it out? The outrage is simple. You didn’t tell us what you were doing. You guys have never volunteered this type of information. You also have a history of doing things that the other members find questionable. So it gets difficult not to assume malevolence on your part. If you try to hide what you are doing, people tend to assume the worst. I try to overcome that tendency, but I sometimes fail. And when I fail, I tend to fail big. My beef was that I interpreted the deletion not as you guys just reviewing it, but outright banning it. There were also other times I had seen you guys act like jerks, but went out of my way to give you the benefit of a doubt and often even defend you. But, apparently, I hadn’t actually been forgiving you. This particular instance may have been a minor thing, but it hit home for some reason. Perhaps it was just the medicine thing I mentioned earlier. After that, I was really was frustrated about being unable to pit you guys since I was feeling so much anger. (The anger itself may be illogical, but that’s usually the case with silly emotions like that.) As far as I know, pitting moderating decisions is still verboten, despite your personal claims to the contrary. Sure, I might not get in trouble with you, but other mods tend to go by the book. Finally, I still think you guys should consider heading off any possible backlash by explaining yourselves either ahead of time, or it you still want to be super cautious, at least as quickly as possible afterward. Especially when it comes to hiding threads. I’m sure I’m not the only one for whom that type of censorship is a major pet peeve. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/67 "2009-09-16T18:23:01Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Serious, good faith question: Is there any mod who could be described as a computer expert, or who even does have a technical background? The only one I ever knew of was **xash** , and now that he’s stepped down, I’m not aware of anyone who has that kind of knowledge. You’re certainly correct in that none of us have the abilities of **Xash**. I \*believe \ ***Invisible Wombat** and **SkipMagic** probably have the best depth of computer background of the group. I’m not speaking for them, but from discussions in the Mod loop, this is my impression. If I’ve overlooked someone, it was inadvertent ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/68 "2009-09-16T18:39:04Z")
> **[Dope Search](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=527248)** > > This implements most of the stuff in my howto, except for the julian date thing. I almost did that. Maybe next time.\*\* index.html\*\* search.html I’m not trying to be rude, but I’m still unclear on the rule about scripts. Was this one asked about ahead of time? I’m actually worried that my anger outburst has totally ruined my reputation amongst the mods on the Dope. (I doubt anyone else had even noticed me)I sincerely hope I can make up for it in the future. Assuming the board itself still has one. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/69 "2009-09-16T18:56:09Z")
I’d not worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/70 "2009-09-16T19:25:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Actually, with wierdaaron’s script, we couldn’t harm your message board; but your message board could harm us. They’re actually right to be somewhat cautious; the script _could_ end up harming the message board if **wierdaaron** turns out to be some sort of credential-harvesting jerkwad. After PMing with him quite a bit, I get a pretty good feeling about his intentions and I’ve also read the code, so I have a certain level of trust in it, but to play devil’s advocate, it still could be a trick, and he could hypothetically get us all to trust him and then later when we’re not expecting it he slips something nefarious into one of the “updates” since we’re not reading them as closely at that point. If this were to happen, say after the script became popular enough that it was fairly commonplace for noobs to be told “yeah, go get the optifixer addon script \; it makes the board better”, it wouldn’t technically be the board’s fault, since they didn’t endorse the code as safe, but it would still be damaging to the board’s reputation and a total pain in the ass for the staff if, say, the result was that some snarkpit person suddenly had a couple hundred sock accounts that used to be active users. That said, I think the caution should be limited to maybe a mod note in posts publicizing the script that says something to the effect of “THE SDMB DOES NOT ENDORSE THIS SCRIPT IN ANY WAY AND BY RUNNING IT YOU ASSUME ALL RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH IT. ONLY RUN THIS SCRIPT IF YOU TRUST WIERDAARON” and/or an announcement about that. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/71 "2009-09-16T19:59:24Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Serious, good faith question: Is there any mod who could be described as a computer expert, or who even does have a technical background? The only one I ever knew of was **xash** , and now that he’s stepped down, I’m not aware of anyone who has that kind of knowledge. Actually, I’m a DBA and a systems admin where I run two data centers. In this particular case I was on vacation and mostly out of reach, and even then I’ve been spending less and less time moderating the board since my kiddo graduated with a degree in Post-Crawling. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/72 "2009-09-16T20:01:18Z")
Yes, good advice all 'round there, ntucker. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/73 "2009-09-16T20:12:55Z")
I’d be fine with letting a tech-savvy mod look over the code before I push out a new update (v3.4.5 – mod approved!), though that might impede some kind of critical bugfix or holepatch. But, yeah, I wouldn’t expect the board to endorse it outright unless it became legendary. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/74 "2009-09-17T00:37:10Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > Actually, I’m a DBA and a systems admin where I run two data centers. In this particular case I was on vacation and mostly out of reach, and even then I’ve been spending less and less time moderating the board since my kiddo graduated with a degree in Post-Crawling. Ah, I didn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/75 "2009-09-17T00:54:42Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > Actually, I’m a DBA and a systems admin where I run two data centers. In this particular case I was on vacation and mostly out of reach, and even then I’ve been spending less and less time moderating the board since my kiddo graduated with a degree in Post-Crawling. I couldn’t help but smile at that, Skip. They grow so very fast. And yet, in the moment, it seems the hassles will never end. My only advice: stay in good physical (and mental) condition. You’ll need all the conditioning you can get once s/he starts running around the house, and wanting to explore everything from the coffee table, to the expensive parlor vase, to the kitchen stove. I envy you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/76 "2009-09-17T19:59:12Z")
I have done a quick review of **wierdaaron** ’s source code, although I haven’t had a chance to look closely. The mods and admins are still discussing our official policy on his code, but we will probably end up saying “use it all you want, but if it breaks anything, don’t come to us for help.” > [@ultrafilter](#): > > Serious, good faith question: Is there any mod who could be described as a computer expert, or who even does have a technical background? The only one I ever knew of was **xash** , and now that he’s stepped down, I’m not aware of anyone who has that kind of knowledge. I have a (now-expired) teaching credential in computer science, and used to be an operating systems programmer. I’ve been a founder and chief tech officer for a software company and a custom microelectronics company, and programmed in everything from PL/1 and FORTRAN to JavaScript and Visual Basic (not to mention a pile of assembly languages). I’m not exactly current on computer science, but I still do PHP/SQL enough to keep my feet wet. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/77 "2009-09-18T01:47:37Z")
Those are impressive credentials, Invisible Wombat! I like the oldies like me, who learned FORTRAN and assembler. I’ve even programmed in machine language. Talk about tedious. Hoo lord. I remember C for Windows 3.1, when we had to draw our own windows and buttons with code. There were no WYSIWIG drag-and-drop visual studios. (Also, incidentally, I’ve only now noticed that you’re a mod.) ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/78 "2009-09-18T16:30:31Z")
Didn’t realize you were part of the “old guard,” either, **Lib**. I started out with BASIC, but moved into PL/1 and FORTRAN II pretty quickly. When I was in high school in the 70’s, I managed to get into a Pascal course at the university, too. My first gig in the trade was logic simulation coding, but I did a lot of device driver work for S100-buss (Imsai, Altair…) machines, coding in the bootstraps on the front-panel switches and loading the programs from paper tape. Ever write idle programs that would blink the front console lights in fun patterns? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981/79 "2009-09-18T16:57:56Z")
Not really, no. I’m self-taught, having been given a Commodore 64 by a roommate who couldn’t pay his rent. Like you, I started with (their version) of BASIC. But I quickly became enamored of the “Peek” and “Poke” commands, which wrote values directly to memory. I went to the local college library which had a book on the machine language for that processor. (Can’t remember, was it a 5401 or something like that?) And so, I started writing programs that “poked” values directly into memory. Like this: 10 Poke 36521, 72 20 Poke 36522, 69 30 Poke 36523, 76 40 Poke 36524, 76 50 Poke 36525, 80 The above would put HELLO in the upper left corner of the screen. Soon, I began poking things into the registers (there were only two, I think). And writing much more complicated machine language routines, including a sorting routine that sorted a 2,000 by 2 array in the blink of an eye. The same sort, using Commodore BASIC, took so long that I literally could fix a sandwich and casually eat it, being finished long before the sort was done. That was what hooked me — the blazing speed of machine code. But before that, I did attend one semester of college. And I did have a friend taking computer sci. He used a sort of typing machine that produced a stack of punched cards that he carried around with him. (I remember him dropping them once, and screaming curses as they scattered down the stairwell in random positions.) He would take his stacks to the Computer Operator (a position that I suppose no longer exists, except in places still doing COBOL). And it was sort of like the great Wizard of Oz. The Computer Operator would take my friend’s cards, and after a couple of days, my friend would pick up his print-out of his code and his result (usually, just a trivial thing, like “42” or something). And it was on that large green and white paper that ran through what we called “high speed printers” because they banged out a whole line at a time. (They were loud.) Then later, I got an actual 8086, and things went from there. (Fancy too. It had \*dual \*floppy disk drives, and a full 640K of ram.) 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-disappeared/509981.md?page=3)