# A thread for all things Cephalopod **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 10, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246 "2017-11-10T19:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/1 "2017-11-10T19:57:35Z")
Poster **Octopus** has been getting in hot water lately with his hijinks in various threads. Like this gem from the thread on the Alabama special election: > [@Can the Democrats win the Alabama senate special election in December?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/240): > > An accusation of an event from 40 years ago? C’mon now. Anyone can accuse anyone of anything. I’m of the opinion that since we have something called “courts” trials of people accused of crimes should usually occur there. > > Plus we all know as the great political sage James Carville once said “Drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you’ll find.” Followed by this: > [@Can the Democrats win the Alabama senate special election in December?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-the-democrats-win-the-alabama-senate-special-election-in-december/793504/247): > > I’m not surprised that people on this forum are quick to jump on allegations and ignore due process if it suits their political goals. I think Moore has problematic positions on certain issues but that’s irrelevant with regards to convicting a person of a crime without a trial. > > It’s also interesting that this story hasn’t come out before. which led to a complete thread derailment, temporary closure, and multiple warnings. His antics are spilling over into other threads, so I’m creating this little playground for everyone to discuss all things Cephalopod, without running aground and mucking up other places. Welcome! ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/2 "2017-11-10T20:19:48Z")
To continue the discussion from there: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post > That’s not what the “shame on you” is about – the “shame on you” is about the next bit. > > If you want to sit alone on your sofa and question anything at all, including motive or timing or whatever else, I don’t care. I don’t care what’s happening inside your head. But putting stuff out there into the world – whether saying it in public, or typing on a public message board, or calling into a radio show… those are actions that can affect others. It’s certainly not illegal (nor should it be) – but legal things can still be wrong. And your posts questioning of timing or motive are contributing, in an eensy-teensy but real way, to this cultural/societal mistrust we have of victims (especially female victims) of rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment. You’re making it just a teeny-tiny bit more likely that the next victim who may have happened to hear questions like yours about some other victim will decide not to come forward, because they’re already suffering from having endured a trauma/attack/harassment/etc., and they just can’t open themselves up to more trauma of rhetorical attacks on them, publicly, just because they’re telling their story. > > That’s wrong and shameful, and something you shouldn’t do. It doesn’t mean you have to say “I believe the women”. You don’t have to say anything. But if you choose to say something about it, and what you say is questioning the motives or timing or anything else that the accusers say (barring real evidence that they’re lying), then you’re putting shit out into the world on top of more shit that really hurts victims of sexual misconduct and women in general. Please don’t do that any more. When/if you do, it’s likely someone will call you out for it. This is it exactly. If someone wants to reserve judgment on any particular accusation, particularly if their lack of action will have no impact whatsoever on the alleged victim, I’m fine with that. The problem I see, time and time again, is when this reservation of judgment emphasizes aspects of the victim’s behavior that are \*\*completely in line with how real-life victims behave. \*\*Saying, ''Why did she wait so long to come forward?" is basically announcing through a bullhorn that you don’t know anything about the psychology of sexual assault victims, or the incredibly harsh consequences they may face for coming forward (in my case, I lost my family and my reputation just for telling a _counselor_), but you’re going to go ahead and judge her behavior anyway because that makes it easier for you to doubt. I completely and fully acknowledge the complexity of this issue despite my obvious bias. I find the power of false accustations, however rare, horrifying beyond measure, in part because I can relate having been falsely accused of lying about my abuse, and the experiences appear to be very similar. I don’t think it requires a court standard of evidence to make up your own mind about someone’s guilt, but I do think there is nothing wrong with taking things on a case-by-case basis. The problem comes in when skeptics embrace completely mythological concepts about what rape or abuse victims are supposed to act like in dealing with their trauma. In the past week, we’ve had posters state that nobody could reasonably feel threatened by a grown man blocking the door and masturbating in front of them, that people speaking out against sexual assault should be afforded ‘‘no big honor’’ since they are ruining the lives of the people whose movies they like to watch, that victims not speaking out right away are a cause for suspicion ( **octopus** ), and we even had a poster months ago stating that women should never tell anyone besides ‘‘a few trusted confidantes’’ about their rape, ever, unless they’d proved it in a court of law, so as to protect their rapist’s reputation. All of these statements smack of ignorance and a lack of empathy. That is damaging to everyone. Ther perpetuation of those myths is the reason I and every woman after me have continued to suffer for the crimes of other people, and it is not okay. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/3 "2017-11-10T20:21:24Z")
Good idea. Come on, **Spice Weasel** , get over here! Meanwhile I’ll summarize [my contribution](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20593920&postcount=4354): **octopus** likes to pretend that he’s a blameless angelic guardian of all things fair and righteous, but he’s actually a hypocritical lying douchebag. ETA: We welcome **Spice Weasel** , who just got over here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/4 "2017-11-10T20:29:34Z")
I don’t have the ‘chop’s or paid enough dues on this forum to really belong in this thread. But…I know wrong- headedness when I see it. Octo-mouth needs some education on how victims of sexual harassment and sexual misconduct are treated. Most victims are subjected to disbelief and the ‘what were you wearing’ questions and ‘why did you put yourself in that situation’ looks. Or the ’ it’s not like you’ve never had sex before’ tut-tut. Or, my favorite ’ couldn’t you just leave’. Unless you have been in the same place as these women you cannot and should not make blanket generalizations. You are not qualified to judge these women, ever, Octo.! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/5 "2017-11-10T20:41:36Z")
The judge himself hasn’t bothered to deny this has happened, relying on the “why did they wait 40 years?” defense. [https://twitter.com/MooreSenate/status/928771064406167552](https://twitter.com/MooreSenate/status/928771064406167552) I put this out here because the judge issued this statement 21 hours ago, and yet Octopus kept defending him against baseless allegations, etc. But they are not baseless - the accused isn’t even denying the accusations! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/6 "2017-11-10T20:43:42Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Good idea. Come on, **Spice Weasel** , get over here! > > Meanwhile I’ll summarize [my contribution](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20593920&postcount=4354): **octopus** likes to pretend that he’s a blameless angelic guardian of all things fair and righteous, but he’s actually a hypocritical lying douchebag. > > ETA: We welcome **Spice Weasel** , who just got over here. 😃 You really are too dumb or dishonest to waste too much time with. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I don’t have the ‘chop’s or paid enough dues on this forum to really belong in this thread. But…I know wrong- headedness when I see it. Octo-mouth needs some education on how victims of sexual harassment and sexual misconduct are treated. Most victims are subjected to disbelief and the ‘what were you wearing’ questions and ‘why did you put yourself in that situation’ looks. Or the ’ it’s not like you’ve never had sex before’ tut-tut. Or, my favorite ’ couldn’t you just leave’. Unless you have been in the same place as these women you cannot and should not make blanket generalizations. You are not qualified to judge these women, ever, Octo.! Octo-mouth? :smack: what is this 3rd grade? Beckatwerp? Whatever. Anyways. I’ll judge who or what I wish when I wish. And iirc, you were doing some victim blaming in the thread on forced kissing so how about stop with the stone tossing? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/7 "2017-11-10T20:44:48Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The judge himself hasn’t bothered to deny this has happened, relying on the “why did they wait 40 years?” defense. > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/MooreSenate/status/928771064406167552) > > I put this out here because the judge issued this statement 21 hours ago, and yet Octopus kept defending him against baseless allegations, etc. But they are not baseless - the accused isn’t even denying the accusations! Not once did I defend Moore. People on these forums really cannot read. I blame the schools. They’ve failed us all. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/8 "2017-11-10T20:46:21Z")
Well since we’re all so illiterate you always have the option of leaving and finding another forum with an acceptable level of intelligence. Nobody is forcing you to communicate with all of us idiots. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/9 "2017-11-10T20:46:45Z")
For me, it’s not so much a question of whether I believe the women with charges against Roy Moore or not. Certainly no accusation should be just accepted at face value. It’s a question of: 1. More than one person is making the claim. Yes, they are not all making the exact same claim, but they are in the same ballpark; and (perhaps even more importantly): 1. This is _The Washington Post_, not The National Enquirer. That is not to say the WaPo is always right, but I think the default should be: A quality newspaper like that should be given credence unless you have good reason not to. These are not unvetted women shouting on a street corner somewhere. I doubt any of this will go to trial, so it’s going to be trial by public opinion. My take is anyone who doubts this should be evidence. Something other than: Well, they could be lying. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/10 "2017-11-10T20:47:09Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Well since we’re all so illiterate you always have the option of leaving and finding another forum with an acceptable level of intelligence. Nobody is forcing you to communicate with all of us idiots. Yeah. So long, suckers! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/11 "2017-11-10T20:55:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > For me, it’s not so much a question of whether I believe the women with charges against Roy Moore or not. Certainly no accusation should be just accepted at face value. It’s a question of: > > 1. More than one person is making the claim. Yes, they are not all making the exact same claim, but they are in the same ballpark; > > and (perhaps even more importantly): > > 1. This is _The Washington Post_, not The National Enquirer. That is not to say the WaPo is always right, but I think the default should be: A quality newspaper like that should be given credence unless you have good reason not to. > > These are not unvetted women shouting on a street corner somewhere. I doubt any of this will go to trial, so it’s going to be trial by public opinion. My take is anyone who doubts this should be evidence. Something other than: Well, they could be lying. Now this is a reasonable post. I’m truly surprised. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/12 "2017-11-10T21:08:21Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You really are too dumb or dishonest to waste too much time with. > > Octo-mouth? :smack: what is this 3rd grade? Beckatwerp? Whatever. > > Anyways. I’ll judge who or what I wish when I wish. And iirc, you were doing some victim blaming in the thread on forced kissing so how about stop with the stone tossing? I never victim blamed anyone. In that thread I said what I would do, not, I repeat NOT what anyone else could or should do. You’re the 3rd grader, and no you cannot judge anybody you want, not in civil society. Who died and made you God? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/13 "2017-11-10T21:10:13Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yeah. So long, suckers! Does this mean you’re leaving? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/14 "2017-11-10T21:11:54Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I never victim blamed anyone. In that thread I said what I would do, not, I repeat NOT > what anyone else could or should do. You’re the 3rd grader, and no you cannot judge anybody you want, not in civil society. Who died and made you God? Sure.:rolleyes: Do you not understand what judging is? You look at evidence, facts, etc. apply some reasoning then make a judgement. You should know that by now. So, yes, I can and will judge who or what I want. Just as everyone and everything that has a brain does. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/15 "2017-11-10T21:23:16Z")
Damn, I thought you were leaving! Before you judge anyone with your big brain, think about how you would feel if this was your Mom or Wife or Sister, or child! No woman should have to worry about being judged by strangers for disclosing what happened to them, much less family. It happens to EVERY person who speaks out about being sexually assaulted or abused. EVERY one! ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/16 "2017-11-10T21:23:31Z")
I judge **Spice Weasel** ’s post to be AWESOME. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/17 "2017-11-10T21:24:23Z")
Are you going to [run away](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20594142&postcount=422)from this thread too? Sad little cowardly man. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/18 "2017-11-10T21:26:14Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Damn, I thought you were leaving! Before you judge anyone with your big brain, think about how you would feel if this was your Mom or Wife or Sister, or child! No woman should have to worry about being judged by strangers for disclosing what happened to them, much less family. It happens to EVERY person who speaks out about being sexually assaulted or abused. EVERY one! When did I ever say I was leaving? If someone did something to my family hopefully we’d go to the police and have the person arrested and tried for his or her crime. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/19 "2017-11-10T21:28:33Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Are you going to [run away](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20594142&postcount=422)from this thread too? Sad little cowardly man. I just posted, dummy. Though, this is not the thread full of people acting with civility that I imagined. If it fills with hysterical vitriol and nonsense it won’t be worth my time. If it is somewhat productive to engage then I do. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/20 "2017-11-10T21:31:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > When did I ever say I was leaving? > > If someone did something to my family hopefully we’d go to the police and have the person arrested and tried for his or her crime. But you would still vote for them for Senate? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246.md?page=2)