# A thread for all things Cephalopod **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 10, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246 "2017-11-10T19:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/182 "2017-11-16T23:30:51Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > **BigT** , I am getting so sick of your constant lectures, I really can’t hold back anymore. I feel like you’re specifically targeting me and my views at this point. Let’s chat. > > My rightness or wrongness has nothing to do with whether or not I’m a survivor. I don’t post for sympathy nor as an appeal to authority, I post my experience as an illustrative example of the very large social problem that is sexual abuse and sexual assault. More on that later, the takeaway, for now, is: whether I’m right or wrong in a particular thing, has nothing to do with my personal experience. > > That said, you know what might slightly, maybe have a bearing on my rightness or wrongness? The fact that I have a fucking masters degree in solving social problems. I have specific education regarding the implementation of social change and effective strategies for achieving such, from one of the top universities in the country. That’s what MACRO social work means: social policy, social advocacy, nonprofit management, legislative action, community organizing, social messaging, marketing, to name a handful of the things I studied. When I was sitting in undergrad trying to figure out what in the hell do to with my life, I decided that I wanted to use my brain to solve social problems. I chose to do this knowing that the pay would be shit and that few people would recognize the professional skillset it takes to do my job. I’ve been operating in a professional capacity for, oh, about nine years now, and I fucking love it. I currently work on the development team of a $4m domestic violence and sexual assault organization and I am _damned_ good at what I do. > > And then you come in, and it feels like just a constant barrage of lectures about what I should or should not be doing regards social issue _du jour._ I really don’t know how I can put it any plainer: > > You, **BigT** , are an amateur lecturing a professional. When you bend over backward to explain to me what social justice is, it’s patronizing to me and embarrassing for you. Our motives for participating in these conversations are wildly disparate. I’m here to do the opposite of alienate people. My job is to reach the broadest audience possible. Yes, even in the Pit. I don’t give a flying fuck what you do or think or say or feel, but don’t tell me how to do my life’s work. > > Leaving aside the obvious hypocrisy of yelling at people for mildly chastising **Idle Thoughts** and then turning around and telling me not to defend **octopus** in any way, or the ridiculousness of pretending that voicing disagreement with a particular line of argument is the equivalent of ‘‘condemnation’’ of this entire Pit thread… > > I spoke up for one reason, and one reason only. So that nobody would be alienated from me. So that my views were clear. So that I can have an honest, decent conversation with people who might not normally share my ideology but are willing to listen. I am always and forever playing the long game. Other people on this board can say whatever they want, they have different motives than I do. As an advocate, I can’t say whatever I want. And I believe that the offense should be proportionate to the crime. **octopus** ’ comment, however harmful it may have been to victims, is so common in my line of work as to be mundane. Do you think that when our Prevention Ed specialists hear that sort of thing among their students, they say, ‘‘Holy shit, you’re such a rape apologist!’’ No. They. Fucking. Don’t. They work through it calmly and reasonably and bitch about it with co-workers later. My approach to that sort of issue is always going to be facilitating conversation. Which I did successfully. So I don’t think you need to worry too much about my approach. > > There are countless survivors on this board, many of whom have messaged me, who don’t feel comfortable speaking up about their own experience because of the shitty world we live in. I wish everyone could hear their voices and not just mine, because I don’t corner the market on survivor experience. It just so happens that my experience fits nicely with a lot of the typical bullshit survivors have to go through, so it’s a good illustrative example of the problem on a sociological level. And I think it helps people who would otherwise be skeptical (i.e. **octopus** ) to hear a point of view that often goes unspoken. Sometimes that kind of honesty is what softens hearts. > > If I didn’t see it working, I wouldn’t be doing it. So for the last motherfucking time, _get off my case._ > > Sincerely, > Spice Weasel Hear, hear, **Spice Weasel**! BAM! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/183 "2017-11-16T23:41:49Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Sometimes I think you really are like my male alter-ego. Why thank you! I’m a fan of yours as well. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/184 "2017-11-17T04:04:05Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > No, I’d get someone who wasn’t smart enough to recognize his own biases. Like the one where he’d attack a 14 year old sexual abuse victim if she had the temerity to accuse a Republican of molesting her. > > Oh, and more lectures on civility. Between the lectures and the attacking 14 year old sexual abuse survivors, where do you find the time? Psst. There is a thread about Al Franken and his actions. In that thread there are some people with the audacity to not call for an immediate lynching.:eek: Do you have any outrage left for those folks? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/185 "2017-11-17T04:07:18Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Does anyone think **octopus** ’ defense of Moore has anything to do with guilt or innocence? Has he ever defended a falsely-accused Democrat? Has he ever spoken against a right-winger? **Bricker** , **HurricaneDitka** , and **octopus** cannot see beyond the “(D)” or “(R)” that accompanies a name, and base their position solely on that. They’ll probably admit to this, and say it’s appropriate: they’re reacting to libtards doing the same thing in reverse. > > Am I wrong? Maybe. **octopus** , can you point to an (R) you’ve attacked or a (D) you’ve defended? I’m not going to exactly defend Al Franken but I think the calls for him to resign are a bit drastic. He apologized. The lady accepted his apology. Why not just move on? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/186 "2017-11-17T04:23:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’m not going to exactly defend Al Franken but I think the calls for him to resign are a bit drastic. He apologized. The lady accepted his apology. Why not just move on? That’s my inclination as well but iiiandyiii gave me pause as regards the message it sends about the Democratic party as a whole. I’m on the fence. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/187 "2017-11-17T04:33:26Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > That’s my inclination as well but iiiandyiii gave me pause as regards the message it sends about the Democratic party as a whole. I’m on the fence. I am not a fan of zealotry. I don’t like it with regards to punishment for substance abuse. I don’t like it for various degrees of other acts be they of dubious morality or not. Morality being weaponized is prone to abuse. Demonizing people that don’t need demonization to signal righteousness leads to oppression. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/188 "2017-11-17T04:43:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I am not a fan of zealotry. I don’t like it with regards to punishment for substance abuse. I don’t like it for various degrees of other acts be they of dubious morality or not. Morality being weaponized is prone to abuse. Demonizing people that don’t need demonization to signal righteousness leads to oppression. As I’ve stated elsewhere I think most incidents of this type come from ignorance and obliviousness, not evil. Our response should be proportionate to the crime, but there must be some response or there’s no impetus to avoid doing it. So what level of response do we demand, and what message are we sending to potential perpetrators? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/189 "2017-11-17T04:57:20Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > As I’ve stated elsewhere I think most incidents of this type come from ignorance and obliviousness, not evil. Our response should be proportionate to the crime, but there must be some response or there’s no impetus to avoid doing it. So what level of response do we demand, and what message are we sending to potential perpetrators? Good luck calibrating a response in an age of social media and national notoriety. I know it’s off topic but people have to be getting worried about how powerfully and disproportionately social media influences reactions. I’m not sure how you influence society to exert pressure in a certain direction with restraint. In some ways one has to be comfortable accepting if not embracing some internal contradictions. Let’s say you accept the premise that Franken’s actions should result in his resignation from the senate. What job would people who advocate that premise be willing to accept for Franken? What unintended consequences does a class of acceptable jobs create? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/190 "2017-11-17T05:05:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Not at all. My position is that I’m not going to automatically believe any accusation from 30-40 years ago. That’s not defending, downplaying or excusing behavior. Does it imply dishonesty? No. It explicitly means that there is a \*possibility \* of dishonesty and judgement shouldn’t be rendered quickly or capriciously. The problem is that when it comes to sexual assault, “better one hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man be punished” means “better a hundred women suffer than one innocent man be punished”. Which may still be a defensible position in terms of what a court should do, but at least own what it is. As a teacher, I always tell my kids that I ler them lie to me because I’d rather believe 100 lies than leave one kid with that horrible feeling of not being believed when you were telling the truth. I guess in my personal life, I feel the same way: I’d rather have to apologize to a man that I believed he might abuse a woman than have to apologize to a woman that I thought she was .maliciously making up lies about a man. So all things being equal, I will tend to believe the woman. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/191 "2017-11-17T05:13:33Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > The problem is that when it comes to sexual assault, “better one hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man be punished” means “better a hundred women suffer than one innocent man be punished”. Which may still be a defensible position in terms of what a court should do, but at least own what it is. > > As a teacher, I always tell my kids that I ler them lie to me because I’d rather believe 100 lies than leave one kid with that horrible feeling of not being believed when you were telling the truth. I guess in my personal life, I feel the same way: I’d rather have to apologize to a man that I believed he might abuse a woman than have to apologize to a woman that I thought she was .maliciously making up lies about a man. So all things being equal, I will tend to believe the woman. I see what you are saying but this isn’t even a guilt vs innocence issue strictly. It’s also how do you create incentives in society for people to behave in a fashion you want them to without those incentives being overly restrictive or punitive. I know it’s cliche but I think there’s a lot of wisdom in the sentence “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.” ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/192 "2017-11-17T05:18:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Not at all. My position is that I’m not going to automatically believe any accusation from 30-40 years ago. That’s not defending, downplaying or excusing behavior. Does it imply dishonesty? No. It explicitly means that there is a \*possibility \* of dishonesty and judgement shouldn’t be rendered quickly or capriciously. > [@octopus](#): > > I see what you are saying but this isn’t even a guilt vs innocence issue strictly. It’s also how do you create incentives in society for people to behave in a fashion you want them to without those incentives being overly restrictive or punitive. I know it’s cliche but I think there’s a lot of wisdom in the sentence “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.” So you worry if we make it too appealing/less traumatic to come forward, we will start getting false accusations? So women need to just take one for the team, and either suffer in silence or pay the price of the walk of shame, jus to keep the potential lying bitches from thinking they cpuld get in on that? It’s always easy to ask someone else to take one for the team. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/193 "2017-11-17T05:27:25Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > So you worry if we make it too appealing/less traumatic to come forward, we will start getting false accusations? So women need to just take one for the team, and either suffer in silence or pay the price of the walk of shame, jus to keep the potential lying bitches from thinking they cpuld get in on that? > > It’s always easy to ask someone else to take one for the team. That’s a very creative interpretation. But no. Let’s go back to your lying children example. Why not impose a zero tolerance! policy and expel any child accused of lying? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/194 "2017-11-17T05:39:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Good luck calibrating a response in an age of social media and national notoriety. I know it’s off topic but people have to be getting worried about how powerfully and disproportionately social media influences reactions. > > I’m not sure how you influence society to exert pressure in a certain direction with restraint. In some ways one has to be comfortable accepting if not embracing some internal contradictions. > > Let’s say you accept the premise that Franken’s actions should result in his resignation from the senate. What job would people who advocate that premise be willing to accept for Franken? What unintended consequences does a class of acceptable jobs create? I don’t really accept that premise. I don’t really think Franken should resign. I’m less concerned with punishment than I am with social change. It basically feels like women are being told to shut up because telling the truth presents too many complications. Well that’s what I experienced directly so I’m not surprised. Based on the studies I’ve seen bandied about, even those least charitable to rape survivors suggest the rate of false accusations are about 10%. That’s like the kind of statistic you’ll see from redpillers, their worst case scenario. What this means to me is that, worst case scenario, with any given accusation, there’s a 90% chance the alleged victim is telling the truth. So why is the burden so disproportionately placed upon us? Why are we expected to suffer in silence? The odds of a conviction are vanishingly small. Do you realize that means we’re getting no justice at all? I have to verify this stat, but at a recent seminar at my org, the legal advocates told us that nationally, out of every 1000 rapes, an estimated 56 are reported, 7 go to trial and 5 result in conviction. 5 out of 1000. What exactly are we supposed to do? Just let it keep happening to other women? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/195 "2017-11-17T05:47:29Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I don’t really accept that premise. I don’t really think Franken should resign. I’m less concerned with punishment than I am with social change. > > It basically feels like women are being told to shut up because telling the truth presents too many complications. Well that’s what I experienced directly so I’m not surprised. > > Based on the studies I’ve seen bandied about, even those least charitable to rape survivors suggest the rate of false accusations are about 10%. That’s like the kind of statistic you’ll see from redpillers, their worst case scenario. > > What this means to me is that, worst case scenario, with any given accusation, there’s a 90% chance the alleged victim is telling the truth. > > So why is the burden so disproportionately placed upon us? Why are we expected to suffer in silence? The odds of a conviction are vanishingly small. Do you realize that means we’re getting no justice at all? > > I have to verify this stat, but at a recent seminar at my org, the legal advocates told us that nationally, out of every 1000 rapes, an estimated 56 are reported, 7 go to trial and 5 result in conviction. 5 out of 1000. > > What exactly are we supposed to do? Just let it keep happening to other women? Not at all. I don’t think people are disputing, well some are, what Franken is accused of. He apologized for the event so I assume something close to what the lady is saying occurred. The topic now shifts, for me at least, what is a proper response to disincentivize this behavior without being a counterproductive overreaction? This reminds me of the initial reason for me joining this board. I joined to argue that an uncharitable and uncompromising view on the motives of someone who displayed a Confederate flag would lead to resentment and be counterproductive in the long term. I think Ramira actually had a good observation in the Franken thread. I also think without writing a novel this is a difficult topic to discuss. Tomorrow I’ll have to sit at the computer instead of pecking at the tablet and flesh out what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/196 "2017-11-17T05:51:14Z")
I understand what you’re saying and I’m basically on the same page. I just don’t know the answer. Social media really does make it so much damned harder. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/197 "2017-11-17T18:14:31Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I have to verify this stat, but at a recent seminar at my org, the legal advocates told us that nationally, out of every 1000 rapes, an estimated 56 are reported, 7 go to trial and 5 result in conviction. 5 out of 1000. > > What exactly are we supposed to do? Just let it keep happening to other women? The numbers you cite are slightly off but [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/12/09/the-truth-about-a-viral-graphic-on-rape-statistics/?utm_term=.30853c05bc45) is a fact check of those numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Cephkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cephkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cephkiller)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/198 "2017-11-17T20:55:30Z")
I have no opinion on this subject. To be honest I haven’t even read this thread. For some reason, though, I just feel like I belong here… ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/199 "2018-02-03T00:01:30Z")
In answer to this question raised in another thread: > [@Omnibus Trolls R Us Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/omnibus-trolls-r-us-thread/755489/6524): > > Having a low opinion of middle age era superstitious cults has nothing to do with the vastly tired out accusation of racism. In this particular case, however, it’s appropriate. [**SeniorCitizen007**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=848464) was banned for being unable to stop talking about Muslims. It wasn’t the religion per se, it was the idea that Muslim people were somehow persecuting him and actively acting against his interests. The threads are linked in the Banning notice I linked to above if you want to see the samples. Racism is the appropriate word here. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/200 "2018-02-03T01:14:06Z")
Dang. I take back some of the insults I’ve made about octopus (except on political issues where I find him blinded by partisanship), as I’m finding myself in agreement with him in this thread. BigT is one of those people who positions himself as the moral arbiter and high ground, from which he can lecture others on all manner of topics. It does get very tiresome, especially when he tries to lecture people who have infinitely more experience on the subject than he does. I don’t position myself as the be-all, end-all expert on male victims of domestic abuse. I will note that I have never been contacted by PM by any male members of this board to discuss it. However, I am very aware that men don’t want to discuss it, don’t want to admit to it, are deeply ashamed that it happened to them, are confused and sometimes unable to process it (as I was at first) and thus, don’t want to share. I get it. Being a mouthy, arrogant asshole, I choose to put myself out there and talk about my experiences. Because the conversation needs to be expanded. Because I think someone has to, and I can handle it. Even when I have to relive trauma\* and have stress reactions and physical pain because of it. No part of that gives me the right (or inclination) to talk about what women experience. And the only time you’ll see me arguing with them over it is in cases where they’re making all men the villains, saying it doesn’t happen to men, or proposing things that will harm innocent men. - Make no mistake. When people speak about traumatic events in their lives, they are reliving those events, that pain, those decisions, those failures in their head. They’re in active pain while sharing it with you. The absolute worst thing you can do is dismiss that pain or focus on their past mistakes, which they cannot change. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/201 "2018-02-03T01:29:31Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > In answer to this question raised in another thread: > > In this particular case, however, it’s appropriate. > > [**SeniorCitizen007**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=848464) was banned for being unable to stop talking about Muslims. It wasn’t the religion per se, it was the idea that Muslim people were somehow persecuting him and actively acting against his interests. The threads are linked in the Banning notice I linked to above if you want to see the samples. Racism is the appropriate word here. Assuming we have free will, religion and other cultural practices are a function of choice and not so much genetics. Different religions, cultures, and ideologies are and this shouldn’t be surprising or controversial different. Not liking people’s choices is not racism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246.md?page=11)