# A thread for all things Cephalopod **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 10, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246 "2017-11-10T19:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/142 "2017-11-15T21:13:14Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > I’ll say in advance that I am replying to a poster making a post, not a mod. This post reeks of a small person getting drunk on a small amount of power, and IMO reflects far worse on the person making it than the person it is aimed at. The board rules require me to respect you as a moderator, so I will, but as a poster I think you come across as a petty bully and you should feel bad about yourself. No, it doesn’t. Not in the slightest. How the fuck is it supposed to? He’s pitting people he’s upset with. As a poster he has every right to do that. He’s not bullying anyone, but using the pit like he’s supposed to. He has no power except as a mod. Plenty of mods have posted how they hate particular posters and think they are trolls. And yet you guys don’t say awful shit like that to them. But, hey. You got to call someone a bully for calling out shitty posters, and got to get rid of him as a mod and a poster. You got to defend the people who actively make this board worse, getting all offended that someone is as mean to them as they are to others. I’d say driving someone away is far, far more bullying than anything he did. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/143 "2017-11-15T21:26:20Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > … > But, hey. You got to call someone a bully for calling out shitty posters, and got to get rid of him as a mod and a poster. … Waitaminute- is that what happened? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/144 "2017-11-15T21:30:29Z")
[Flounce Air One Niner, cleared for takeoff.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=841876) ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/145 "2017-11-15T21:34:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > But, hey. You got to call someone a bully for calling out shitty posters, and got to get rid of him as a mod and a poster. If Idle Thoughts was so thin skinned that one person posting a rebuke to one of his posts caused him to step down as a mod and quit the board, he never would have survived this long as a moderator, you dumb ass fuck. Even if my post was the straw that broke the camel’s back, I stand by what I posted. Feel free to take your sanctimonious wagging finger and shove it up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/146 "2017-11-15T21:36:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, it doesn’t. Not in the slightest. How the fuck is it supposed to? He’s pitting people he’s upset with. As a poster he has every right to do that. He’s not bullying anyone, but using the pit like he’s supposed to. He has no power except as a mod. > > Plenty of mods have posted how they hate particular posters and think they are trolls. And yet you guys don’t say awful shit like that to them. > > But, hey. You got to call someone a bully for calling out shitty posters, and got to get rid of him as a mod and a poster. You got to defend the people who actively make this board worse, getting all offended that someone is as mean to them as they are to others. > > I’d say driving someone away is far, far more bullying than anything he did. BigT, are you really that stupid? Are you crying in the basement now over poor little Idle Thoughts? Idle Thoughts came into my Pit thread and was a huge potty mouth. People responded, as is _their_ right. How did that drive anyone off? And _if_ it did, being “driven off” is indicative of being pretty weak and hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/147 "2017-11-15T21:51:53Z")
I would be shocked if **IT** left because of that post. The mods take a lot of heat around here, and that was a burner set to medium low at most. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/148 "2017-11-15T21:53:32Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I strongly disagree that he’s being a rape apologist. I think that accusation dilutes the meaning of that word. He engaged in some behaviors that don’t help survivors any, but I reserve my survivor rage for actual rape apologist scumbags. If you want to berate him, I can’t stop you, but I’m going to disagree on the record because, given my heavy participation in this thread, it could readily be interpreted as me participating in a pile on or agreeing with the things said. I’m not, and I don’t. And I say you are wrong. I know you were a victim yourself, and I’m not stepping on that. But I still say you are wrong. I’ll concentrate on a single post: the first one quoted in this thread. In that post, he calls the victim a liar who made it up after 40 years because it would be hard to prove, doing so just for money. Then he contradicts himself by pulling the classic trick about it needing to be proven in a court of law, when he’s just got through explaining why that would be difficult. That is a classic form rape apologia. It’s just twisting in every way you can to avoid acknowledging rape. I see this particular kind all the time, appealing to the courts. It was the go-to defense of Cosby, for example. The only thing I can figure is that you are saving the term for people saying that the woman was asking for it and similar. And I agree that is worse. But this is just a step down. It still all has the same goal: discrediting rape accusations. And thus I will never condemn anyone for pitting anyone for that garbage. My response is usually just to put them on ignore. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/149 "2017-11-15T21:59:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And I say you are wrong. I know you were a victim yourself, and I’m not stepping on that. But I still say you are wrong. > > I’ll concentrate on a single post: the first one quoted in this thread. In that post, he calls the victim a liar who made it up after 40 years because it would be hard to prove, doing so just for money. Then he contradicts himself by pulling the classic trick about it needing to be proven in a court of law, when he’s just got through explaining why that would be difficult. > > That is a classic form rape apologia. It’s just twisting in every way you can to avoid acknowledging rape. I see this particular kind all the time, appealing to the courts. It was the go-to defense of Cosby, for example. > > The only thing I can figure is that you are saving the term for people saying that the woman was asking for it and similar. And I agree that is worse. But this is just a step down. It still all has the same goal: discrediting rape accusations. > > And thus I will never condemn anyone for pitting anyone for that garbage. My response is usually just to put them on ignore. I never called her a liar you barely literate fool. You on the other hand are lying with your deliberate misreading. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/150 "2017-11-15T22:01:32Z")
One other point I’d like to bring up. > [@BigT](#): > > Plenty of mods have posted how they hate particular posters and think they are trolls. And yet you guys don’t say awful shit like that to them. Who the fuck are you guys? I’m sure as shit not royalty, so we can pass on the royal we. Who else are you talking to in that post? Are you actually replying to me? It’s shit like this that pisses me off about you, where it’s obvious that you don’t even see anyone who disagrees with you as an individual, but merely as a “them” to be argued against. News flash BigTard: Not everyone who disagrees with you is part of a “them.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/151 "2017-11-15T22:31:53Z")
So much for the meme that Canadians are all nice and shit! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/152 "2017-11-15T22:37:43Z")
Well, he’s crazy. Says so right in his name. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/153 "2017-11-16T03:57:50Z")
**BigT** , I am getting so sick of your constant lectures, I really can’t hold back anymore. I feel like you’re specifically targeting me and my views at this point. Let’s chat. > [@BigT](#): > > And I say you are wrong. I know you were a victim yourself, and I’m not stepping on that. But I still say you are wrong. My rightness or wrongness has nothing to do with whether or not I’m a survivor. I don’t post for sympathy nor as an appeal to authority, I post my experience as an illustrative example of the very large social problem that is sexual abuse and sexual assault. More on that later, the takeaway, for now, is: whether I’m right or wrong in a particular thing, has nothing to do with my personal experience. That said, you know what might slightly, maybe have a bearing on my rightness or wrongness? The fact that I have a fucking masters degree in solving social problems. I have specific education regarding the implementation of social change and effective strategies for achieving such, from one of the top universities in the country. That’s what MACRO social work means: social policy, social advocacy, nonprofit management, legislative action, community organizing, social messaging, marketing, to name a handful of the things I studied. When I was sitting in undergrad trying to figure out what in the hell do to with my life, I decided that I wanted to use my brain to solve social problems. I chose to do this knowing that the pay would be shit and that few people would recognize the professional skillset it takes to do my job. I’ve been operating in a professional capacity for, oh, about nine years now, and I fucking love it. I currently work on the development team of a $4m domestic violence and sexual assault organization and I am _damned_ good at what I do. And then you come in, and it feels like just a constant barrage of lectures about what I should or should not be doing regards social issue _du jour._ I really don’t know how I can put it any plainer: You, **BigT** , are an amateur lecturing a professional. When you bend over backward to explain to me what social justice is, it’s patronizing to me and embarrassing for you. Our motives for participating in these conversations are wildly disparate. I’m here to do the opposite of alienate people. My job is to reach the broadest audience possible. Yes, even in the Pit. I don’t give a flying fuck what you do or think or say or feel, but don’t tell me how to do my life’s work. Leaving aside the obvious hypocrisy of yelling at people for mildly chastising **Idle Thoughts** and then turning around and telling me not to defend **octopus** in any way, or the ridiculousness of pretending that voicing disagreement with a particular line of argument is the equivalent of ‘‘condemnation’’ of this entire Pit thread… I spoke up for one reason, and one reason only. So that nobody would be alienated from me. So that my views were clear. So that I can have an honest, decent conversation with people who might not normally share my ideology but are willing to listen. I am always and forever playing the long game. Other people on this board can say whatever they want, they have different motives than I do. As an advocate, I can’t say whatever I want. And I believe that the offense should be proportionate to the crime. **octopus** ’ comment, however harmful it may have been to victims, is so common in my line of work as to be mundane. Do you think that when our Prevention Ed specialists hear that sort of thing among their students, they say, ‘‘Holy shit, you’re such a rape apologist!’’ No. They. Fucking. Don’t. They work through it calmly and reasonably and bitch about it with co-workers later. My approach to that sort of issue is always going to be facilitating conversation. Which I did successfully. So I don’t think you need to worry too much about my approach. There are countless survivors on this board, many of whom have messaged me, who don’t feel comfortable speaking up about their own experience because of the shitty world we live in. I wish everyone could hear their voices and not just mine, because I don’t corner the market on survivor experience. It just so happens that my experience fits nicely with a lot of the typical bullshit survivors have to go through, so it’s a good illustrative example of the problem on a sociological level. And I think it helps people who would otherwise be skeptical (i.e. **octopus** ) to hear a point of view that often goes unspoken. Sometimes that kind of honesty is what softens hearts. If I didn’t see it working, I wouldn’t be doing it. So for the last motherfucking time, _get off my case._ Sincerely, Spice Weasel ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/154 "2017-11-16T04:10:16Z")
Spice Weasel has just won the thread! IMHO! YOU GO GIRL!! (the crowd goes wild) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/155 "2017-11-16T05:17:32Z")
I’m not skeptical that a tremendous amount of violence and sexual violence or harassment occurs unreported or not dealt with. I just think it’s important that people aren’t automatically judged guilty due to an accusation. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/156 "2017-11-16T05:20:52Z")
Well, I don’t feel much better having written that. Nothing irritates me more than being patronized, it drives me up the fucking wall and always has since I was a kid. But after every self-righteous tirade, I always immediately think of stuff I’ve done that contradicts what I’ve said. Certainly I’ve unleashed on people before. I freaked out on aceplace earlier this week. Shit gets emotional sometimes. I think of “rape apologist” in a more narrow sense. People who excuse the acts themselves are rape apologists. Hannity is a rape apologist for implying a 14 year old can consent to sex with a 32 year old man. People who discount survivor stories as “not real assault” when they clearly are, are rape apologists. I lose my cool with them sometimes. And other times I don’t worry about alienating people who are obviously beyond reason. Karol Lewis comes to mind. But when I’ve got a chance to communicate with someone who might listen, I usually take it. Usually there’s a method to my madness. After this week, however, I think we’re down to just the madness part. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/157 "2017-11-16T06:13:15Z")
What frustrate me with BigT is that he has a strong sense of righteousness but it’s coupled with an ends justifies the means mentality which I find dangerous. Life isn’t black and white and scorched earth isn’t how you advance a cause of progress. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/158 "2017-11-16T14:20:17Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’m not skeptical that a tremendous amount of violence and sexual violence or harassment occurs unreported or not dealt with. I just think it’s important that people aren’t automatically judged guilty due to an accusation. > [@octopus](#): > > What frustrate me with BigT is that he has a strong sense of righteousness but it’s coupled with an ends justifies the means mentality which I find dangerous. Life isn’t black and white and scorched earth isn’t how you advance a cause of progress. I agree with both of these statements. The issue, I think, is that when someone says, ‘‘I just think it’s important that people aren’t automatically judged guilty…’’ and you are the person that individual molested, it’s roughly equivalent to hearing, ''You will never, ever get justice for what happened to you. People are going to forget and move on with their lives, your abuser is going to walk around free and probably also abuse other people, and you will live for the rest of your life with the consequences of what he did." That is precisely what happened to me. Sexual assault is a unique issue because the consequences can be far more devastating than say, having your wallet or car stolen, but it’s almost impossible to prove in a court of law. So my task is to figure out how we can address the survivors’ very real experience of injustice while also preserving some modicum of critical thinking in how we evaluate each case. It’s a tough problem. I think that shaping _how_ we talk about these cases will go a long way toward expelling damaging myths about rape and abuse, so my best guess is that it really does start with language. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/159 "2017-11-16T15:04:15Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Quick sidebar - I think **Beck** is gregarious, but does not know **dropzone** outside of the Board. **Beck** - do I have that right? > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Nope. > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Nope, you know him outside the Board, or nope, you don’t know him? > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > oh, I do know him. I never been called gregarious, though! According to the first 20 posts of this thread, he doesn’t know you… [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=837688](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=837688) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/160 "2017-11-16T15:20:42Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > According to the first 20 posts of this thread, he doesn’t know you… > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=837688](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=837688) So, at the risk of making this already more convoluted, my understanding is that **Breck** and \*\*dropzone \*\*recently began communicating online. He considers her a friend of sorts, but not someone he knows in real life. I know this because **dropzone** just emailed me. The idea that **Breck** is a sock came from **Idle Thoughts**. \*\*Idle Thoughts \*\*knows **dropzone** IRL and was apparently unaware that **Breck** and **dropzone** were online friends. When he asked **dropzone** if he knew **Breck** , **dropzone** said no, they had only recently begun communicating, which is technically true. This galvanized **Idle Thoughts** ’ opinion that **Breck** is a sock and is why he made the comments he did. You follow all that? As far as I can tell, that’s the extent of the sock theory. One misunderstanding between friends. The idea that **Idle Thoughts** left the boards over this is, in my opinion, absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246/161 "2017-11-16T15:26:52Z")
That is complicated. Is there some sort of chart or diagram you can create and link to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-all-things-cephalopod/801246.md?page=9)