# A thread for Gulftiger to discuss politics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006 "2024-07-30T12:02:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/21 "2024-07-30T14:04:35Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > That’s from three years ago. More recently, states have been declaring that motorists cannot be pulled over simply because there is something hanging from the mirror. Yes. And that’s a good thing. It doesn’t negate the point that there are laws on the books that make hanging an air freshener (or anything else) on your review mirror a citable offense, which is all I was responding to. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/22 "2024-07-30T14:07:38Z")
And @crowmanyclouds was responding to “pulling someone over because it’s illegal to have an air freshener hanging from the rear view mirror”, which is increasingly being no longer the case. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/23 "2024-07-30T14:08:16Z")
Do you want to give the police, on the side of the road during a traffic stop, to decide themselves what is and what isn’t obscuring a driver’s view? How do you think that’s going to play out? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/24 "2024-07-30T14:10:08Z")
> [@Trolls R Us Resurrections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-resurrections/950518/12464): > > My critique of the 19th Amendment is that it stopped short of full equality. It should have tied the vote to draft eligibility. Hey fuckwit? Which side was/is it that opposes drafting women again? ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/25 "2024-07-30T14:10:32Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Do you want to give the police, on the side of the road during a traffic stop, to decide themselves what is and what isn’t obscuring a driver’s view? How do you think that’s going to play out? No. Which is why I didn’t say any such thing. I think the law is probably only enforced in 99% of cases where it’s pretextual. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/26 "2024-07-30T14:17:12Z")
Ok, so woman is drafted. Surely she won’t get pregnant(I suppose it happens, but saying she’s smart enough not to go to war with a baby on board) Can she vote? Have an abortion if she does get pregnant? Can she have a cat? 19th amendment was clearly only about the women’s right to vote. If a full draft is put in place in a declaration of war I have no problem with women being drafted. They have shown the ability to fight for their country. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/27 "2024-07-30T14:20:13Z")
> [@Trolls R Us Resurrections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-resurrections/950518/12459): > > Thats saying that I can’t tell, given that our election systems for the most part are not transparent nor auditable. You can’t tell because you’re not putting the work in. Let’s say you want to audit the result for Arizona. You go to Arizona’s website and there’s a document that shows the exact result for each county. Then you ask about, for example, Apache county and there’s a [400 page document](https://drive.google.com/file/d/19ZK8uLUq_fMeum2scTmWlEChIQ0EcXAC/view) that shows the results by individual district. Auditing stuff is a lot of work, but every single number that added up to a Biden win was audited by a professional and reviewed by observers from both sides of the aisle. If someone falsified the result in Arizona, they have to get those false values into the individual results from these districts that cast 500-1,000 votes. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/28 "2024-07-30T14:23:52Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Let’s say you want to audit the result for Arizona. I’m quite certain that you’re using a very different definition of _audit_. I mean if they can’t know exactly who voted for who how are they going to know which houses to burn down? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/29 "2024-07-30T14:24:54Z")
I’m out. Troll. (Meant for gulf-whathisface) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/30 "2024-07-30T14:30:11Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > I never mentioned G. Floyd. You mentioned the need for people to fear violence as the flip side of the police being accountable. What happened to G. Floyd **is** that flip side. > [@](#): > > I don’t know how to not have police and civilization. We need police. But we need to be able to hold them accountable for their actions. > [@](#): > > But I think we give police too many nanny state laws with which to abuse us. Certainly “qualified immunity” is a much-abused power, and one which we tend to allow to cover far more territory than we should. But the police are not the face of the “nanny state”. We give the police too much responsibility for events outside their power, all the while increasingly treating them (and arming them) like a branch of the military. We encourage the police to assume everyone they encounter is potentially hostile, including those who actually need help, all the while removing every _other_ outlet (many of which would be far more constructive) for those people to turn to. When the only tool you have is a hammer, you end up breaking a lot of shit. There are ways to solve the problem. But some people like the current situation, because it “hurts the right people”, all the while complaining about spending money on those solutions. Note that it is the political right that are far more likely to promote and encourage the militarization of the police (particularly against minority populations, I’m sad to say) and to defund or abolish other necessary public services which are labelled the “nanny state”. One potential way of looking at things: [![](https://images.dailykos.com/images/889682/story_image/defund.jpg?1606996661) ](https://images.dailykos.com/images/889682/story_image/defund.jpg?1606996661) ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/31 "2024-07-30T14:31:11Z")
> [@Trolls R Us Resurrections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-resurrections/950518/12451): > > we all know that trolling is not exclusive to the right. It’s a common tool used by all sides on the interwebs. It is not however supposed to be used by posters on these boards. And ‘all the other kids are doing it’ wasn’t accepted as an excuse when I was 9. > [@Trolls R Us Resurrections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-resurrections/950518/12453): > > I may just give up arguing about it all. If the only way you think you can argue for your position is by trolling, then I’d advise you to seriously reconsider your position. You appear to be saying that you’ve got no actual arguments for it. > [@Trolls R Us Resurrections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-resurrections/950518/12459): > > The best I can say about 2020 is that I don’t know who won. Every court appealed to, including those run by majority Republicans and by Republican judges, said it was Biden, no question. It wasn’t even a case like Gore v Bush, when the real answer was ‘too close to call by the counting technology used’ – and even then Gore acknowledged, once it had been through the courts, the validity of seating Bush. Unlike the case in Gore v Bush, Biden clearly had the votes, more than enough votes, and in more than enough states. Insisting that you still don’t know is willfull ignorance. > [@Trolls R Us Resurrections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-resurrections/950518/12464): > > All people have the right to keep their reproductive systems healthy and well. productive. Do you think people have no right to keep their reproductive systems unproductive? Do you acknowledge that keeping one’s reproductive system healthy and capable of producing in the future sometimes requires abortion of a current pregnancy, whether early or late in term? > [@Trolls R Us Resurrections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-resurrections/950518/12464): > > My critique of the 19th Amendment is that it stopped short of full equality. It should have tied the vote to draft eligibility. I suspect that ‘if men are to be drafted women should be too’ is a majority position on this board. > [@GulfTiger](#): > > The entire system dead ends in violence unless you obey. If police come to arrest you and you don’t obey, they will unleash violence upon you. We all know that. They are supposed to do so only when actually necessary, only to the extent necessary, and according to specific rules. They are most certainly not supposed to beat you into unconsciousness and possible death because you didn’t instantly do everything they said. And there are quite a lot of police precincts where they don’t; because no it isn’t necessary to behave like that in order to make civilization possible. > [@mjmartin](#): > > Then I guess I’m confused why you said that there is no such law? Because the law’s not about air fresheners; it’s about obstructing the driver’s view. Do you think it’s OK for people to be driving around with their view of the road and/or their mirrors obstructed? If whatever’s hanging from the mirror doesn’t actually obstruct the view, of course, that’s a different issue; and appears to be in process of being addressed in the laws. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/32 "2024-07-30T14:37:23Z")
My little pine tree hangs on a coat hanger hook over a back door. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/33 "2024-07-30T14:41:52Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Because the law’s not about air fresheners; it’s about obstructing the driver’s view. Oh, I missed it. It was all a meaningless quibble. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Do you think it’s OK for people to be driving around with their view of the road and/or their mirrors obstructed? > > If whatever’s hanging from the mirror doesn’t actually obstruct the view, of course, that’s a different issue; and appears to be in process of being addressed in the laws. These laws are 100% NOT about obstruction of the view of the road. They are about giving police a pretext for stopping otherwise lawful drivers. Just like the law that makes having a license plate holder a citable offense. **Some** states are making progress to make these types of laws a secondary offense. They have nothing to do with safety however. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/34 "2024-07-30T14:50:08Z")
> [@Trolls R Us Resurrections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-resurrections/950518/12451): > > > [@Trolls R Us Resurrections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-resurrections/950518/12451): > > > > we all know that trolling is not exclusive to the right. It’s a common tool used by all sides on the interwebs. > > It is not however supposed to be used by posters on these boards. This. Every message board, in fact every gathering of people, has rules of conduct, implicit and explicit. This message board has an explicit rule against trolling. We don’t tolerate it on either side. If you feel you are bring trolled by someone on the left, please report that to the mods. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/35 "2024-07-30T14:52:54Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > They are about giving police a pretext for stopping otherwise lawful drivers. All traffic/vehicle laws are a pretext for stopping otherwise lawful drivers. That’s the point of said laws. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/36 "2024-07-30T14:55:59Z")
That’s just a plain misunderstanding of the word “pretext.” If an officer wants to stop someone because they are speeding, and issues a warning or ticket for speeding, that’s not a pretext. If an officer wants to stop someone so (s)he can run a warrant check or thinks that a black person doesn’t belong in that neighborhood at that hour, and the only basis (s)he has to do so is an air freshener (sorry, an “obstruction”) that’s a pretext. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/37 "2024-07-30T15:14:58Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Every message board, in fact every gathering of people, has rules of conduct, implicit and explicit. This message board has an explicit rule against trolling. We don’t tolerate it on either side. The entire system dead ends in banning unless you obey. If mods come to admonish you and you don’t obey, they will unleash the banhammer upon you. ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/38 "2024-07-30T16:20:55Z")
> [@Trolls R Us Resurrections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-resurrections/950518/12464): > > I’ve never read project 25. Probably would help if you did. If you don’t have the time/inclination to read the whole thing, ABC News has a \< 4 minute summary, though rather dry: [https://www.you](https://www.you) [tube.com/watch?v=bTK3lKbb4HI](http://tube.com/watch?v=bTK3lKbb4HI) For a more in-depth and amusing take on this horrific document, I recommend John Oliver: [https://www.you](https://www.you) [tube.com/watch?v=gYwqpx6lp\_s](http://tube.com/watch?v=gYwqpx6lp_s) The links have been broken by putting a space in “youtube.” Maybe you can examine these proposed policies and come back and explain why they motivate you to support Mr. Trump for President. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/39 "2024-07-30T17:29:15Z")
Made me laugh! ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/40 "2024-07-30T18:55:59Z")
Haven’t read yet but saw this come across the wire that the P25 guy quit after Trump’s criticism. [https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/project-2025-head-steps-down-89cba52b?mod=e2tw](https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/project-2025-head-steps-down-89cba52b?mod=e2tw) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006.md?page=3)