# A thread for Gulftiger to discuss politics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006 "2024-07-30T12:02:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/61 "2024-07-30T22:07:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > but when it comes to things like Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, one can quote the Orange Menace as saying “Putin can do whatever the hell he wants”. I’m old enough to remember when Republicans _hated_ Russia, and warned everyone that Russians couldn’t be trusted. Now Republicans (one in particular) are willing to sell our security to them. Republicans used to say (quite recently), ‘We fight them over there so that we don’t have to fight them here.’ Now they say, ‘Let’s not fight them at all. That leopard’s never going to eat _my_ face!’ They don’t understand the concept of ‘return on investment’. Yes, supporting an ally is expensive for us. They don’t understand how much _more_ expensive it will be if they _don’t_ make the investment. Actually, Republicans’ blindness to ROI reminds me of this quote from _Discworld_: > The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. … A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. … But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and _would still have wet feet_ . ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/62 "2024-07-30T22:19:22Z")
Tangential to this issue, and maybe more generally for the likes of **GulfTiger** … Ukraine/Russia. Anybody that remembers **[Trump’s first Impeachment](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-2025-a-rw-blueprint-for-autocracy/993262)** remembers that it was based on Trump’s “perfect call” with Zelenskyy. In that call, Trump threatened to withhold some $300M of US taxpayer dollars – already allocated to Ukraine to help them fend off Russian aggression – unless Ukraine, working through Rudy Giuliani, fabricated dirt on Joe Biden, then Trump’s likely 2020 opponent – dirt that still seems to elude legitimate discovery four years later, it should be said. There could have been no greater gift to Putin than denying Ukraine previously allocated US aid dollars at such a perilous time, and the greatest part for Trump was – per usual – he was blackmailing using somebody else’s money: the American taxpayers’. Similarly, in the current election cycle, Trump has repeatedly said that he’d essentially stop the war in Ukraine, the war in Gaza, and secure the release of Americans held in Russia (eg, [**Evan Gershkovich**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Gershkovich)) with a phone call, _immediately upon being re-elected_ (ie, as President-elect, not even waiting to take the office). As Trump held Ukraine hostage on that phone call, he daily reminds us now that he _still_ holds the Ukrainian people hostage, just as he holds the Middle East hostage, and just as he holds any Americans being held by the Russians hostage. The clear implication is that he _could_ make that phone call at any time he wanted (unless – of course – there’s just not much he can do for Putin as TFG (ie, Vlad’s not taking his calls)). He simply chooses not to. And if any of that matters to you At. All., then you know what you have to do: just hand the title to the long-running but perpetually fragile American Democratic Experiment directly over to him. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/63 "2024-07-30T22:31:18Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I read it as Gutfeld, who I admire. Of _course_ you do. Yet another example of your lack of intelligence. All you do on this board is spew idiotic right-wing nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/64 "2024-07-30T22:50:54Z")
Just for the record, if someone admits to being a Troll, believe them. If they claim they don’t know things that have been front page news for months on both ends of the political spectrum, the odds point to deliberate lies and or trolling _again_. If a person says “the still have doubts” about 2020 and that the process isn’t transparent enough, despite their own supported party having spent countless millions of taxpayer money going through the records with an axe to grind, AND the top cop of the nation who was part of the administration saying there’s nothing there, then again, deliberate lies, trolling, or such an idiot to be indistinguishable. So, I know this has never worked in the history of the boards, but DNFTT. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/65 "2024-07-30T23:03:29Z")
Not so. Everyone not a democrat is an idiot? I do not spew nor believe nonsense. Again, viewpoints other than yours are not nonsense. I have not voted Republican for decades. I should just agree with everything you say. Forgive me for giving my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/66 "2024-07-30T23:11:19Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I have not voted Republican for decades. Pants on fire! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/67 "2024-07-30T23:11:59Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Everyone not a democrat is an idiot? No, but Gutfeld certainly is. Also, It’s a fucking _D_ not a _d_. Is it really that hard to remember how to spell one of the two major political parties you seem to want to have opinions on? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/68 "2024-07-30T23:12:12Z")
Saying that one “admires” Gutfeld (or any of the other RW news ‘entertainers’, or Tucker Carlson, or Alex Jones, or Ann Coulter, or any others of their ilk) is akin to saying that one “admired” Rush Limbaugh. They’re con artists. They’re demagogues. They’re media whores and propagandists. They don’t feed their audience facts, and help them by providing objective context and analysis. They shill – unabashedly – for the GOP. This is why – to date – the payments for their perfidy tally fairly close to a billion dollars. And they aren’t out of the legal woods yet. These types are not to be ‘admired.’ Or believed. Or trusted. Or worshipped. Or idolized. Or paid attention to. And – as usual – they really have no equivalents on the left side of the aisle. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/69 "2024-07-30T23:27:09Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > > [@SuntanLotion](#): > > > > I have not voted Republican for decades. > > Pants on fire! I cannot prove it, but I have voted Libertarian since 2008. Apologies to Gulftiger for hijacking their pit thread. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/70 "2024-07-30T23:34:26Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I cannot prove it, but I have voted Libertarian since 2008. Until 2016, that was **worse** than voting Republican. Republicans were for deregulation. lower taxes, and cutting social services. Libertarians were for essentially no government and no taxes and no social services. All about property rights, nothing about society. In your current situation, in a libertarian regime you’d be homeless and starve to death. Boggles the mind why you’d vote for them. But since 2016, MAGAts have firmly established themselves in the lunatic asylum and have become as dangerous to social democracy as the original libertarian lunatics. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/71 "2024-07-30T23:34:27Z")
Oh wow. I get back from work and have already gotten homework assignments. That’s OK. Amongst being called a POS, etc., some have extended kindness despite my transgression and I am a believer in reciprocity so I will work through the questions. I tell you what though, I don’t have unlimited time but I will look at every one of these and return with my thoughts. I may have to do this over a couple of days so please be patient. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/72 "2024-07-30T23:46:22Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Libertarians were for essentially no government and no taxes and no social services. Libertarians _do_ want social services. For themselves. They also want everything for free. Roads? Hell, yeah, they want to have them. They just don’t want to pay for them. Fire and Police Departments? Hell, yeah! But don’t make us pay for them! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/73 "2024-07-30T23:47:02Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > In your current situation, in a libertarian regime you’d be homeless and starve to death. Boggles the mind why you’d vote for them. You’re totally discounting ~~American~~ SuntanLotion Exceptionalism! ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/74 "2024-07-30T23:54:13Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > In your current situation, in a libertarian regime you’d be homeless and starve to death. SuntanLotion is one capital gains tax rate reduction from being a billionaire. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/75 "2024-07-30T23:56:07Z")
And the Death Tax is the only reason SuntanLotion won’t be able to leave those billions to their children! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/76 "2024-07-30T23:59:15Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Republican > [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Libertarian > [@SuntanLotion](#): > > democrat So, we can rule out a broken Shift Key then… ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2024, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/77 "2024-07-31T01:03:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Libertarians _do_ want social services. For themselves. They also want everything for free. Roads? Hell, yeah, they want to have them. They just don’t want to pay for them. Fire and Police Departments? Hell, yeah! But don’t make us pay for them! To be fair, the ones I know do expect to pay for them. A payment easily within their considerable means, of course; which I suspect they expect to be less than their current taxes. They just don’t expect anybody who can’t afford to pay for them to be able to get any use of them. To be even more fair, they seem to be under the delusion that everybody over about 12 could afford to pay for them if they weren’t wasting their money on trips to gamble in Atlantic City. (Reference from an actual conversation, though I don’t have it recorded.) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/78 "2024-07-31T01:11:31Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > To be fair, the ones I know do expect to pay for them. A payment easily within their considerable means, of course; which I suspect they expect to be less than their current taxes. Being a libertarian would probably be great if you’re rich. Of course, if you were in a libertarian society, I’m not sure if those people would have had the opportunity to get rich in the first place, since that society would look so much more different, and a heck of a lot more chaotic. Ironically, capitalism would fare a lot worse without some kind of regulation to keep it from destroying itself. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2024, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/79 "2024-07-31T02:14:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > if you were in a libertarian society, I’m not sure if those people would have had the opportunity to get rich in the first place, since that society would look so much more different I’m not sure they think of that. I think that they think they’d succeed in that sort of society also, because they think that aside from extreme cases of disability all you really need is determination and willingness to work. But mostly, I think they’re utterly naive about how humans work, and therefore don’t expect the chaos. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2024, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/80 "2024-07-31T02:23:31Z")
See our extensive debate on various flavors of Libertarian belief, hyper-capitalism, and the like in a prior Pit thread. > [@This is parody, right? (Meme about extreme libertarianism)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/3): > > Possibly, but more probably not. Especially given the Twitter handle of “YoungCapitalists”. It’s very much in keeping with certain brands of HyperLibertarianism and HyperCapitalism I’ve seen online, and in fiction drawing on those conclusions. Trying to give my interpretation of these beliefs (I don’t share them) comes from the assumption that Government has NO role in a society other than enforcing contracts - BUT smart, hip businessmen and citizens don’t even need that, they can manage it … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006.md?page=5)