# A thread for Gulftiger to discuss politics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006 "2024-07-30T12:02:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 7
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2024, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006/7 "2024-07-30T13:03:02Z")
GulfTiger, it sounds, from what you said in the ‘Trolls’ thread, that though you’re not coming out as a full election denier, you have doubt as to the integrity of the 2020 election: > [@Trolls R Us Resurrections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-resurrections/950518/12459): > > The best I can say about 2020 is that I don’t know who won. Thats not saying Biden lost or Trump won. Thats saying that I can’t tell, given that our election systems for the most part are not transparent nor auditable. > > And the same goes for 2016, even though I could tolerate the results better. I’m curious as to what you think of my standard argument to election deniers. Even if you aren’t a full election denier yourself, perhaps you can point out any oversight or lapse of logic in this argument? * * * The 2020 election was the most closely watched election in history, specifically because Trump said before the 2016 election that it would be rigged, and even claimed it had been rigged after he won, saying that he would have gotten even more votes. Each state controls its election process independently. Biden won the 2020 election because he won 8 swing or battleground states- Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. So for the Democrats to have ‘rigged’ the vote, they would have had to achieve the equivalent of not just the ‘heist of the century’, but 8 separate ‘heists of the century’ on the same night. Some of those 8 swing states had Republican-controlled governments, like Arizona and Georgia. Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia Secretary of State at the time, who Trump famously asked to ‘find 11,780 votes’ had been a loyal acolyte in Trump’s good graces, up until then. Why would Raffensperger not have cried foul if he had had the slightest belief or evidence that the Georgia election had been rigged? --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-gulftiger-to-discuss-politics/1005006)._