# A thread for Rudy {Rudy Giuliani}
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [August 16, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355 "2023-08-16T04:08:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/1 "2023-08-16T04:08:08Z")
Thought I would start a thread specifically about Rudy’s litigation woes.
Sounds like he’s in financial troubles. Un-indicted co-conspirator One in Washington, indicted co-conspirator in Georgia, defendant in four, count’em four, defamation suits; facing disbarment in NY and DC; it all adds up.
Says he has to sell an apartment in NY for $6 million (asking price). Admitted he made the statements alleged to be defamatory in one action, to cut down litigation costs. Having trouble paying a huge monthly bill of $20,000 for e-storage of his files, which he needs to mount his defences.
Oh, and _quelle surprise_, The Donald has stiffed him on his bills for all that high quality legal work he did for Trump back in 2020.
Details here:
> **[Giuliani struggling under massive legal bills after defending Trump | CNN...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/15/politics/giuliani-money-lawsuits-trump/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_content=2023-08-16T00%3A24%3A27&utm_source=twCNNp&utm_medium=social)**
>
> Rudy Giuliani is staring down hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills and sanctions amid numerous lawsuits in addition to the new criminal charges – related to his work for Donald Trump after the 2020 election.
Everything Trump touches dies.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2023, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/2 "2023-08-16T05:30:26Z")
Here’s the article about Trump not paying Rudy:
> **[Trump stiffed his alleged co-conspirators, whose false claims brought in $250...](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/15/trump-alleged-co-conspirators-never-got-paid-by-trump-team.html)**
>
> Some of former President Donald Trump's alleged co-conspirators were never paid for their work for his campaign, despite a $250 million windfall.
> [@](#):
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> Trump and Giuliani had a handshake agreement that Giuliani and his team would get paid by the Trump political operation for their post-election work, according to Timothy Parlatore, an attorney for longtime Giuliani ally Bernard Kerik.
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> But the Trump campaign and its affiliated committees ultimately did not honor that pledge, according to campaign finance records. The records show that Giuliani’s companies were only reimbursed for travel and not the $20,000 a day he requested to be paid.
>
> Parlatore also told CNBC that the Giuliani operation was never compensated for its work. According to Parlatore, the failure to pay Giuliani and his team came up last week in a private interview between prosecutors on special counsel Jack Smith’s team and Kerik, a member of Giuliani’s team in late 2020.
> …
> Trump has a long history of not paying his bills. But the revelation that he likely stiffed Giuliani, a longtime friend, is all the more striking given that much of the work Giuliani did for the Trump operation is detailed in a sprawling RICO indictment in Georgia released Monday, in which Giuliani is a co-defendant alongside Trump and 17 other people.
Everything Trump touches dies.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2023, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/3 "2023-08-17T03:16:02Z")
The article reports some more 3-D chess by the Great Cheeto:
> [@](#):
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> But what has surprised those in Trump’s inner circle is the former president’s unwillingness to pay for Giuliani’s bills, given Giuliani could find himself under intense pressure to cooperate with the federal and state prosecutors who have charged Trump. Giuliani sat down voluntarily with special counsel Jack Smith’s investigators this summer, and he was indicted this week in Georgia by the Fulton County district attorney.
>
> **“It’s not a smart idea” for Trump to refuse to pay Giuliani’s legal fees** , one person close to the situation told CNN, referencing how Trump’s relationship with Michael Cohen famously deteriorated while he was investigated by special counsel Robert Mueller.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/4 "2023-08-17T17:05:56Z")
And reactions from some New Yorkers who have personal knowledge of Rudy’s legal work:
> [@](#):
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> Veteran mob lawyer Murray Richman told The Messenger that he’s “spoken to several of my clients” since Giuliani, former President Donald Trump and 17 co-defendants were charged with violating Georgia’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act.
>
> “You can quote me to say, ‘They’re f------ thrilled,’” Richman said Wednesday.
> **[Wiseguys Rejoice at Seeing NYC Mafia Buster Rudy Giuliani Indicted on Trump...](https://themessenger.com/news/wiseguys-rejoice-at-seeing-nyc-mafia-buster-rudy-giuliani-indicted-on-trump-rico-charge)**
>
> 'They're f--- thrilled,' veteran mob lawyer Murray Richman said of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations rap out of Georgia tied to 2020 election
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/5 "2023-08-17T21:14:01Z")
John Dean predicts that Rudy will declare bankruptcy and then apply for a public defender.
[https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4156688-john-dean-on-giuliani-in-georgia-indictment-rudy-is-going-to-get-destroyed-by-this/](https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4156688-john-dean-on-giuliani-in-georgia-indictment-rudy-is-going-to-get-destroyed-by-this/)
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2023, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/6 "2023-08-17T22:26:44Z")
All true, but if Rudy tries this tack to get court appointed counsel, won’t he have to prove to the satisfaction of the court that he is truly indigent?
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/7 "2023-08-17T22:47:14Z")
Different in our system. Accused has to demonstrate indigence first.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/8 "2023-08-18T15:05:04Z")
No, I just wanted to start a separate thread on Guiliani, to avoid hijacking any of the many other litigation threads.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2023, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/9 "2023-08-19T00:59:30Z")
They could use the story line from _The Simpsons_ where Homer and Mr Burns are trapped in a cabin.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/10 "2023-08-20T21:11:48Z")
Awk! Brain bleach! brain bleach!
> [@](#):
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> In 2000, the two men appeared together in [a memorable skit](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1078259845538117) for an annual charity dinner, with Giuliani dressed in drag and Trump nuzzling the then-mayor’s fake bosom.
>
> “Oh, you dirty boy, you!” Giuliani exclaimed before slapping Trump in the face.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/11 "2023-07-26T15:17:12Z")
Probably pay-walled, but here’s the NY Times article. He still thinks he can defend himself
> [@](#):
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> In a two-page declaration, Mr. Giuliani acknowledged that he had in fact made the statements about Ms. Freeman and Ms. Moss that led to the filing of the suit and that the remarks “carry meaning that is defamatory per se.” He also admitted that his statements were “actionable” and “false” and that he no longer disputed the “factual elements of liability” the election workers had raised in their suit.
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### Author:  [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/12 "2023-07-26T15:24:10Z")
The link is missing, but a Newsweek version is linked in the Rudy Pit thread. I’ll copy it from there,
> **[Rudy Giuliani admits false statements about Georgia election workers](https://www.newsweek.com/rudy-giuliani-election-workers-georgia-lawsuit-1815422)**
>
> Donald Trump's former legal adviser conceded he had made false statements, but argued that it did not mean they caused the workers damage.
All credit to @Railer13 for bringing up the link in said thread first (WAY more than you wanted to know about Rudy Giuliani).
A point though, and IANAL, so I have no way to verify if this is a legit tactic or just making the most out of a bad situation.
> Ted Goodman, political advisor to the former mayor, told _Newsweek_ Giuliani “did not acknowledge that the statements were false but did not contest it in order to move on to the portion of the case that will permit a motion to dismiss.”
> “This is a legal issue, not a factual issue,” he said. “Those out to smear the mayor are ignoring the fact that this stipulation is designed to get to the legal issues of the case.”
So it seems they’re not challenging that so they can argue the rest of the merits of the case. Which IMHO seems they know that they can’t challenge that part, and are going to try to weasel on the definitions of harm and/or reasonable belief to try to get out of or minimize the settlement. A second point from the Newsweek version:
> CNN reported earlier in July that Freeman and Moss’ lawyer had disclosed that Giuliani’s team had approached them “to discuss a potential negotiated resolution,” which they described as being close to agreement.
Since the damages claim were unspecified, I bet the continuing case is to convince the election workers to accept a cheaper settlement and move on. Personally, I’d settle sooner than later (even though I’d love to drag Rudy through the courts) as long as I could get cash on the barrel. A looooot of people are lining up for a shot at him.
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### Author:  [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/13 "2023-07-26T15:28:01Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Mr. Giuliani acknowledged that he had in fact made the statements about Ms. Freeman and Ms. Moss that led to the filing of the suit and that the remarks “carry meaning that is defamatory per se.”
Now I want to know if Rudy meant “defamatory per se” in the colloquial or the legal sense?
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/14 "2023-07-26T15:39:26Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#):
>
> The link is missing, but a Newsweek version is linked in the Rudy Pit thread. I’ll copy it from there,
Thanks. Don’t know what happened to the link. Here it is again:
[Giuliani Concedes He Made False Statement About Georgia Election Workers.](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/us/politics/giuliani-georgia-election-workers.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20230726&instance_id=98481&nl=from-the-times®i_id=124114119&segment_id=140311&te=1&user_id=11e33a5fce8e494d50c7e74adf64831a)
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### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/15 "2023-08-05T17:04:10Z")
I could neb wrong, but I don’t think he admitted he “lied”. Do you have a cite?
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/16 "2023-08-05T17:49:25Z")
From the article in post #2:
> [@](#):
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> Giuliani did not contest that “to the extent that the statements were statements of fact and otherwise actionable, such actionable factual statements were false.”
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### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2023, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/17 "2023-08-05T17:59:58Z")
Yes, he admitted to making false statements, not lying. The two are not the same, correct?
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### Author:  [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/18 "2023-08-05T18:18:24Z")
The difference can, of course, be seen when comparing the quality reporting by the NYT and the rubbish that Newsweek has become. (both linked in this thread).
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/19 "2023-08-05T18:19:17Z")
There are different definitions that can be applied. But as it applies here it is difficult to see how Rudy made actionable false statements that he could reasonably say he believed to be truthful. That’s lying in my book.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/20 "2023-08-05T18:20:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#):
>
> The two are not the same, correct?
Only if you can plausibly claim ignorance, which Rudy cannot.
Though I guess you’re asking if Rudy admitted that he knew the truth, and I do have to agree with you that it looks like he hasn’t done that, so it’s correct that he didn’t “admit that he lied”.
He did admit to saying something false, when clearly he knew better, so you can consider it a half-confession I suppose.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355.md?page=2)