# A thread for Rudy {Rudy Giuliani} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 16, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355 "2023-08-16T04:08:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/601 "2023-12-21T07:28:50Z")
Right, I know, but a really experienced and single-minded money-extraction operation could force Giuliani to spend every minute of the day desperately playing whack-a-mole with his entire asset list rather than showboating for the media. That would quite effectively shut him up, because he wouldn’t be able to do anything else with his time, lest the collections experts get a foothold somewhere and wreck his shit. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/602 "2023-12-21T08:36:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Any Law-talking people can confirm this? Procrustus is a lawyer for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/603 "2023-12-21T09:34:38Z")
So am I, but I am not an American one. Speaking very generally, and mindful that I am not licensed to practice in any US state, I don’t know of any jurisdiction that allows creditors to leave a debtor totally destitute to the point where the debtor is living homeless on the street. In my opinion, Rudy will get to keep part of what he owns, though not much. Maybe enough to afford a small econobox car, and a reasonably-priced apartment, decked out with furniture he already owns. Again, I don’t know for sure, but that would be my guess, based on what happens in my jurisdiction. Naturally, he will have to keep working, in order to satisfy the debt and afford the little he is allowed to own. Now that his law license has been suspended, he cannot practise law. But he can flip burgers at McDonald’s or be a bagboy at Safeway or punch a card in a factory or warehouse that doesn’t require skilled labour. Point is, that he has to do something to demonstrate in good faith that he is trying to keep himself living on his own earnings, while he pays this debt down. It should be noted that bankruptcy is not a “get out of debt free” card; at least, not in my jurisdiction. Typically, the trustees in bankruptcy that the bankrupt debtor will engage (if the bankrupt debtor is smart) will try to negotiate a “pennies on the dollar” deal with the creditors. After all, bankruptcy doesn’t make the creditors go away; it just makes the creditors double down in negotiations in order to get as much as they can for each dollar owed. It gets complicated, with secured creditors, unsecured creditors, preferred creditors, and the like, but it will get sorted out in the end by the lawyers and trustees. Oh, and declaring bankruptcy means that his credit is absolutely shot. He might be able to get a debit card tied to his bank account, but he won’t be able to get a credit card, get a bank loan or a mortgage, and so on. Welcome to the wonderful world of cash on the nail, Rudy. (Yes, I know there are ways around this, but they all return to cash in the end.) Point is, that a debtor declaring bankruptcy doesn’t mean that creditors throw up their hands and say, “Well, we’re screwed; now we’re owed nothing.” It simply means that they’re willing to settle for something less than the amount owed. If that something is nothing, well, so be it, but you better believe that if they can even get pennies on the dollar, they’ll take it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/604 "2023-12-21T18:10:20Z")
Sad Trombone Sound II: > ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/605 "2023-12-21T18:12:56Z")
No doubt he’s going to attempt to hide as much of his assets as possible from the bankruptcy proceedings. What does this mean for his radio show pay, or royalties from books etc? How much of it will he be allowed to keep? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/606 "2023-12-21T18:14:13Z")
$500 million in debt, $10 million in assets. The Dominion and Smartmatic debts are not included in the above. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/607 "2023-12-21T18:18:06Z")
Slightly OT, but can I just make a Motion that our in-house Trombonist be given an immediate raise?? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/608 "2023-12-21T18:18:41Z")
… from 9/11 to Chapter 11, the Rudy Giuliani Story… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/609 "2023-12-21T18:23:06Z")
Another question… Since money can no longer serve as a deterrent to stop Rudy from lying and defaming people, can jail time now be used to stop him? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/610 "2023-12-21T18:39:46Z")
Rudy won’t see jail. This is a civil matter, not a criminal one, and debtors’ prisons are a thing of the past. He won’t get very far with trying to divest himself of assets in order to keep them out of the hands of creditors, either. As I mentioned in another post, this is what is known as a _fradulent preference_, and once bankruptcy is engaged, courts and creditors will be looking very closely at all his financial dealings. If they sense that he’s trying to look like he’s worth less than he actually is, due to divesting assets that he plans to reclaim later, they will step in and put a stop to it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/611 "2023-12-21T19:10:21Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Rudy won’t see jail. This is a civil matter, not a criminal one, and debtors’ prisons are a thing of the past. I was not thinking of jail for not paying debt. I was thinking of jail if he continues to lie and defame people AFTER being found civilly liable ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/612 "2023-12-21T19:13:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I was thinking of jail if he continues to lie and defame people AFTER being found civilly liable Not jailable. But he could go to jail in Georgia if he doesn’t make a deal. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/613 "2023-12-21T19:14:40Z")
Lying is not a crime. It’s not nice, to be sure, but it’s no crime. It only rises to the criminal level if it ventures into fraud (see, e.g. Ponzi schemes). Defamation is not a crime either. It is, to be specific, an intentional tort, and can be prosecuted through the civil courts. As such, it is not a criminal matter. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/614 "2023-12-21T19:20:55Z")
Thanks all, for the clarifications. It seems odd to me that he now has carte blanche to spread even more disinformation about the Georgia election workers to try to destroy their lives even more. I suppose if he published their new addresses and said it would be a “shame” if anything happened to them, this would be actionable in some way… ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/615 "2023-12-21T19:21:10Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Lying is not a crime. In the US, we have this thing called “libel”. It does not get enforced much, but it _is_ in the code. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/616 "2023-12-21T19:29:40Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … from 9/11 to Chapter 11, the Rudy Giuliani Story… Very nice! Subheadline “America’s Mayor to America’s Liar”. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/617 "2023-12-21T19:32:29Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Defamation is not a crime either. That is not an accurate statement in the US. Unfortunately. > **[Map of States With Criminal Laws Against Defamation](https://www.aclu.org/issues/free-speech/map-states-criminal-laws-against-defamation)** > > Twenty-four states have laws that make it a crime to publicly say mean things about people, with penalties ranging from fines to imprisonment. These laws violate the First Amendment and are Though in this case Georgia is the jurisdiction and they’ve repealed their criminal defamation statute, so it is accurate to say that Rudy can’t go to jail for defaming these election workers. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/618 "2023-12-21T19:35:49Z")
It’s official: [https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/politics/rudy-giuliani-declares-bankruptcy/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/politics/rudy-giuliani-declares-bankruptcy/index.html) Time to try (and probably mostly fail) with the Bankruptcy dodge! ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/619 "2023-12-21T19:53:48Z")
Politico’s story on the bankruptcy has probably the least flattering photo of Rudy I’ve seen in quite some time, which is saying a lot. [![](https://www.politico.com/dims4/default/fd2bb3c/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5700x3800+0+0/resize/1260x840!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F78%2F1d%2F6535708b44a1b6eeb626cb3dbcc2%2Fgiuliani-election-trial-84921.jpg) ](https://www.politico.com/dims4/default/fd2bb3c/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5700x3800+0+0/resize/1260x840!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F78%2F1d%2F6535708b44a1b6eeb626cb3dbcc2%2Fgiuliani-election-trial-84921.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/620 "2023-12-21T19:56:22Z")
Are you implying that he has _another_ look?? I haven’t seen it. ETA: By the way, you can see this gentleman is also in the frame – as he is so damned often: > **[The Truth Conductor](https://www.facebook.com/truthconductor/)** > > The Truth Conductor. 690 likes · 47 talking about this. This page is leading the way to a new day with a daily dose of wisdom and understanding to simplify [![](https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/412785335_10161214097768104_7883250085073530976_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=w0lEDCZG2poAX_3QdjC&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=00_AfBmh79xkWLgj-4BvyfhhXx6OjMz-sMHfAZjGtGbxOL9pA&oe=65899EF6) ](https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/412785335_10161214097768104_7883250085073530976_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=w0lEDCZG2poAX_3QdjC&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=00_AfBmh79xkWLgj-4BvyfhhXx6OjMz-sMHfAZjGtGbxOL9pA&oe=65899EF6) I want to agree and support his basic message, but since the entry of MAGA onto the political stage, I find myself inclined to hate his F’ing guts 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355.md?page=32)