# A thread for Rudy {Rudy Giuliani} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 16, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355 "2023-08-16T04:08:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/141 "2023-08-17T14:03:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think Rudy is screwed. Even flipping now won’t help him, the prosection has everything they need to convict DJT so there’s little incentive for them to offer Rudy a deal for his testimony. I don’t think Rudy could possibly get a deal where he walks, but at his age, any reduction in his sentence is a potential lifeline. And I think Trump’s personal attorney on the stand, revealing all the dirt (corroborated elsewhere) could be tremendously impactful and persuasive. Not in MAGAworld, of course, but in a court of law, with objective jurors. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/142 "2023-08-17T15:01:27Z")
The prosecution doesn’t want Rudy as a cooperating witness. He is useless to their case, because Trump’s team can impeach his “truthful” testimony by pointing to all the times he’s lied recently, babbled incoherently, or drunkenly, or otherwise made a fool out of himself in public. Besides that, he’s facing a few decades in prison. At 79, does it matter if you’re facing 30 years or 10? You’ll be dead long before your time is served either way, and they ain’t going to reduce his sentence to 0 for some testimony that they already have documentary evidence of and that can be easily impeached. Rudy is screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/143 "2023-08-17T15:06:35Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > He is useless to their case, because Trump’s team can impeach his “truthful” testimony by pointing to all the times he’s lied recently, babbled incoherently, or drunkenly, or otherwise made a fool out of himself in public. I agree. It’s like if you have a case where you have video of a guy selling meth on the corner, a bag of meth with his prints on it, and a note signed by the guy saying “I have meth for sale”. You don’t need to put one of his meth-head clients who is a known liar on the stand to swear he bought meth from him. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/144 "2023-08-17T15:17:15Z")
Yeah, makes sense. I withdraw my objection, Your Honor! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/145 "2023-08-17T15:22:30Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Rudy is screwed. It’s important to look on the bright side occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/146 "2023-08-17T15:37:38Z")
> [@A thread for Rudy {Rudy Giuliani}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/988631/135): > > He > [@A thread for Rudy {Rudy Giuliani}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/988631/44): > > I have yet to see convincing evidence he pays winners, either. While I don’t want it seem like I’m defending the asshole, I personally know people that worked for him and got paid. His reputation is that he looks for any excuse he can find not to pay his contractors, and he’s notorious for doing things like insisting on his contractors using the cheapest materials available and refusing to pay because they don’t perform like quality materials, but if he can’t find a good excuse, he’ll pay the bill. I never worked directly for him, but I sold a lighting and shade automation system through his in-house contractor at one of his NYC buildings. Early in the job, they managed to screw me out of about $1000 due to some poor wording in my contract. But they also screwed their client (the owner of the apartment) by not purchasing and installing all the lights and shades and control points specified on the plan. Which means I only had to provide enough equipment to control what was actually installed, which was considerably less than what was on the plan…and in the contract. And they never noticed. It ended up being one of my most profitable jobs that year, because I was the unintended beneficiary of them screwing someone else. And that’s the story of the time I sort of worked for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/147 "2023-08-17T21:44:47Z")
So what happens if a defendant won’t - or can’t - pay the judgments against him? Part of the CNN article said that a judge has ordered him to pay $89,000 to the two Fulton County election workers for their legal bills. He hasn’t, and now Mss Moss and Freeman are asking the judge to make him pay another $44,000. At what point, and how, can he be forced to pony up? Sure, it’s great that the judge is hitting him in the wallet, but if he’s not paying, that’s a gesture; and in the meantime, Mss. Moss and Freeman are on the hook to their legal team. Can the court eventually start seizing assets? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/148 "2023-08-17T21:52:44Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > John Dean predicts that Rudy will declare bankruptcy and then apply for a public defender. Wouldn’t it be risky to declare bankruptcy? Won’t the bankruptcy court want a lot of transparency in regards to his finances and business dealings? ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/149 "2023-08-17T22:12:09Z")
If someone refuses to pay amounts that are owed as part of a judgment, then you will need to figure out what assets they have that might be of value, whether it’s their bank accounts, wages, or property. The state you’re trying to collect the property from will have their own set of rules regarding how to file a claim to seize property, garnish wages, or levy bank accounts based on an outstanding judgment you have against someone. Once you’ve convinced the state that the judgment debtor has property in their jurisdiction and has not paid their debt to you, they’ll probably give you an order which you take to the sheriff who has local jurisdiction, and they’ll commence with seizing and auctioning it if it’s not money, or getting a garnish set up on their wages. Generally the debtor will not want this to happen, as the service fees that the state and the sheriff will charge you for help in collecting do not reduce the amount of the judgment they have to pay, so in essence the debtor pays those fees if the judgment ends up being fully recovered. Unless they simply don’t have enough assets, you having to get the authorities involved in collecting will cost them money in the long term. In the shortage of assets case though, only thing you’ll be getting are wage garnishes which will likely be a pittance. I have client who has a 7 figure judgment against someone and is getting around $70 every two weeks, as the debtor just doesn’t have anything else of value. On the other hand, the amount of work that it will take to locate the assets and make the proper filings with the state, which you’ll probably have to hire a lawyer to do, might cost you a lot of time, effort, and/or money, and the judgment debtor might want to see you have to spend the money to chase after them. If it costs more to collect than the amount that can be collected, they won’t bother. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/150 "2023-08-17T22:42:18Z")
Side note - but considering the sheer number and criminal risks in all of his ongoing issues, does he want to have some random court appointed and overworked lawyer that only gives him the best they can do with the time allotted? Sure, he can later claim ineffective council, but it also seems more likely he’ll end up with jail time rather than just destitution. Honestly, I’d expect suicide (by booze and pills) more likely, rather than living the life of a pleb. But I could be wrong. I honestly expected him to flip around the time Trump first stiffed him on bills and he might have had a chance of attracting an offer sufficient to insulate him. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/151 "2023-08-17T22:45:10Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > All true, but if Rudy tries this tack to get court appointed counsel, won’t he have to prove to the satisfaction of the court that he is truly indigent? At some point, perhaps. I don’t know how it works in the federal system, but at the California state level, we just appointed a public defender and left the “ability to pay” questions to be sorted out at a later time. The courts didn’t want defendants to be able to build delay into the process by having to prove indigence. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/152 "2023-08-17T23:06:58Z")
Oh, they go through a cursory preliminary query at the beginning. But if there is a significant or complicated dispute, they sort it out later. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/153 "2023-08-17T23:08:39Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And reactions from some New Yorkers who have personal knowledge of Rudy’s legal work: > > > [@](#): > > > > Veteran mob lawyer Murray Richman told The Messenger that he’s “spoken to several of my clients” since Giuliani, former President Donald Trump and 17 co-defendants were charged with violating Georgia’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act. > > > > “You can quote me to say, ‘They’re f------ thrilled,’” Richman said Wednesday. > > [https://themessenger.com/news/wiseguys-rejoice-at-seeing-nyc-mafia-buster-rudy-giuliani-indicted-on-trump-rico-charge](https://themessenger.com/news/wiseguys-rejoice-at-seeing-nyc-mafia-buster-rudy-giuliani-indicted-on-trump-rico-charge) Based on fictional TV shows and movies I’ve watched, when a cop or DA gets busted for corruption, all the people they’ve helped convict suddenly get their cases reopened or dismissed. Does that have any basis in reality? And, if so, can some of these mobsters appeal their convictions because the guy who put them away proves to be corrupt? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/154 "2023-08-18T00:07:53Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Based on fictional TV shows and movies I’ve watched, when a cop or DA gets busted for corruption, all the people they’ve helped convict suddenly get their cases reopened or dismissed. > > Does that have any basis in reality? Oh absolutely. This is from just a couple of months ago. > **[NYC prosecutor drops over 300 convictions tied to officers found guilty of...](https://apnews.com/article/convicted-officers-cases-dismissed-new-york-e0667eb56ca0f043311cf138782566b6)** > > NEW YORK (AP) — Manhattan's top prosecutor on Tuesday disavowed over 300 convictions tied to police officers who were themselves found guilty of crimes, the latest in over 1,000 dismissals citywide of cases connected to officers who were charged or... And note, that’s in Rudy’s old town. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/155 "2023-08-18T12:25:58Z")
> [@A thread for Rudy {Rudy Giuliani}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/988631/151): > > > [@A thread for Rudy {Rudy Giuliani}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/988631/63): > > > > Based on fictional TV shows and movies I’ve watched, when a cop or DA gets busted for corruption, all the people they’ve helped convict suddenly get their cases reopened or dismissed. > > > > Does that have any basis in reality? > > Oh absolutely. This is from just a couple of months ago. > > [NYC prosecutor drops over 300 convictions tied to officers found guilty of crimes | AP News](https://apnews.com/article/convicted-officers-cases-dismissed-new-york-e0667eb56ca0f043311cf138782566b6) > > And note, that’s in Rudy’s old town. So it’s possible, then, that Rudy’s delusional, treasonous loyalty to a wannabe mobster could lead to freedom for the actual mobsters he once helped put away? MAGA! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/156 "2023-08-18T12:30:18Z")
1987 was I believe the last time Rudy put away a mobster. Anyone want to see if any of them are still in prison or even alive? A big deal is being made out of a mobster possibly getting out after 36 years? This seems like a really minor issue if it is one at all. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/157 "2023-08-18T12:35:55Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > A big deal is being made out of a mobster possibly getting out after 36 years? This seems like a really minor issue if it is one at all. Not trying to make a “big deal” out of it – I’m just happy for any ironically nasty salt I can imagine rubbing in Rudy’s wounds as his life falls apart. I’m not normally a vindictive person, but for some reason treason brings it out in me. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/158 "2023-08-18T14:56:39Z")
By the way, is the thread title “_A thread for Rudy_” a reference to something? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/159 "2023-08-18T15:01:58Z")
To avoid hijacks, please let only @Northern_Piper answer this question. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355/160 "2023-08-18T15:38:56Z")
He’s planning to fight this all the way to the Supreme Courtyard by Marriot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-rudy-rudy-giuliani/989355.md?page=9)