# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 101
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2001 "2018-01-25T22:58:33Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Iron-clad evidence of a quid pro quo with Russia? > > Iron-clad evidence of supporting Russian money laundering with Trump getting a piece? The more troubling question is, are enough people going to believe it? I guaran-damn-tee that if Mueller brings out a serious smoking gun, Fox News is going to start pushing “well, who really knows if it’s true, what with all the Photoshops and computer things.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2002 "2018-01-26T00:11:03Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The more troubling question is, are enough people going to believe it? I guaran-damn-tee that if Mueller brings out a serious smoking gun, Fox News is going to start pushing “well, who really knows if it’s true, what with all the Photoshops and computer things.” The Fox line will simply be that the FBI is lying; they’ve been setting that excuse up for some time now. \*\* You can take that to the bank\*\*. If Mueller and his team were to reveal slam-bang evidence of Trump committing heinous crimes, Fox talking heads will claim the FBI is lying and will suggest Trump disband the FBI, DOJ, or both. I will be the worst threat to American democracy since independence. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2003 "2018-01-26T00:14:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I will be the worst threat to American democracy since independence. I pictured that said with a booming voice and a flapping cape. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2004 "2018-01-26T00:18:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The Fox line will simply be that the FBI is lying; they’ve been setting that excuse up for some time now. \*\* You can take that to the bank\*\*. If Mueller and his team were to reveal slam-bang evidence of Trump committing heinous crimes, Fox talking heads will claim the FBI is lying and will suggest Trump disband the FBI, DOJ, or both. > > I will be the worst threat to American democracy since independence. [Already being done.](https://www.salon.com/2017/12/14/conservatives-want-the-fbi-demolished-to-protect-donald-trump/) > [@](#): > > Fox News is actively encouraging President Donald Trump to behave like a tyrant. > > On Wednesday, the network invited Tom Fitton, president of the conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch — known for promoting endless scandals in the Obama administration (including Hillary Clinton’s emails) — suggested that the FBI is tainted, and perhaps should be culled. > > “Forget about the FBI investigation into Clinton and Trump being compromised by these conflicts. I think the FBI has been compromised. Forget about shutting down Mr. Mueller. Do we need to shut down the FBI because it was turned into a KGB-type operation by the Obama administration?” Fitton said. > > ``` > .@TomFitton: "I think the FBI's been compromised. Forget about shutting down Mr. Mueller. Do we need to shut down the @FBI because it was turned into a KGB-type operation by the Obama administration?" pic.twitter.com/zBParrU9QJ > > — Fox News (@FoxNews) December 14, 2017 > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2005 "2018-01-26T00:26:42Z")
For so many of our current difficulties and the difference between now and how things have gone in the past, the unknowable factor is alt-right “news” as it is pushed around on social media and Fox (Trump) “News” memes. There’s a reason they’re working so hard to control local news outlets through Sinclair Media, to demonize traditional medial sources, to do away with net neutrality, to control the public message in every way they can. I’m sure Vlad has already told Trump how important this is when setting up a plutocracy. I honestly don’t know how to fight it, except to keep talking about what’s factually true. But this alternative universe of lies where Trump supporters live must be fought in every way possible. How do we rid ourselves of this cancer? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2006 "2018-01-26T01:25:38Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Iron-clad evidence of a quid pro quo with Russia? > > Iron-clad evidence of supporting Russian money laundering with Trump getting a piece? If it was trump(D), the House and then Senate would have started impeachment proceedings nearly a year ago. The hypocrisy is stunning. As long as he just keeps lying, the Repubs, will say, “Oh, well I guess there is nothing to see here”. I’m not sure at this point that there is anything that will turn the Senate to get 67 votes to impeach. Nothing will turn his base. He cold admit to collusion (and near treason w/Russia) and his base would cheer him on. … Except, the 2018 election. Hopefully a majority of states and smaller elections elect Dems in droves. As congress only seems to care about reelection, that may turn them. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2007 "2018-01-26T01:35:53Z")
In case you thought that Trump not firing Mueller is showing uncharacteristic restraint, it turns out that [Trump ordered Mueller fired months ago](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/us/politics/trump-mueller-special-counsel-russia.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news), and White House counsel refused to carry out the order and threatened to quit. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2008 "2018-01-26T01:42:18Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > In case you thought that Trump not firing Mueller is showing uncharacteristic restraint, it turns out that [Trump ordered Mueller fired months ago](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/us/politics/trump-mueller-special-counsel-russia.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news), and White House counsel refused to carry out the order and threatened to quit. Yeah. I thought that it just happened again. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2009 "2018-01-26T02:04:19Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Yeah. I thought that it just happened again. Not sure what you mean. This just broke. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2010 "2018-01-26T02:36:35Z")
That latest story shows, to me, how terrified Trump is. Not just by Mueller’s investigation, but by the possibility of those around him abandoning him. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2011 "2018-01-26T02:47:18Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Not sure what you mean. This just broke. Was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2012 "2018-01-26T02:58:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That latest story shows, to me, how terrified Trump is. Not just by Mueller’s investigation, but by the possibility of those around him abandoning him. Seriously, why wasn’t orange ugly rug put in jail years ago? His only acquaintence with the law is in violation of same. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2013 "2018-01-26T03:18:42Z")
Slow. Motion. Fun. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2014 "2018-01-26T03:46:55Z")
Gotta love Hannity [dealing with this live on air](https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/956729170700259329). My sources can’t confirm this. The New York Times is fake news. OK, my sources now do confirm this, but who cares. Hey look, car chase! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2015 "2018-01-26T05:43:02Z")
The money laundering is more important because its his money. A nod and a wink would be all it would take. Not even explicit, nothing written, just an understanding that hordes of federal accountants could climb over, around and through his books. 'Course, a totally scrupulous business man has nothing to fear from such diligent inspection! And if there are problems, discrepancies, a few piddling millions here or there…well, that can all be resolved by the appropriate restitutions, fines, liens. Thus all shadows flee, whatever money remains is guaranteed pure-D clean money, and all his! Let it be fairly noted that should he resign to spend more time with his family, or undertake a life of penance and meditation…well, then, the attention would fizzle, his fiscal Javert’s might very well wander off aimlessly… Trump doesn’t have money, money has him. He would have done nearly anything to be President, he will do anything not to be poor. On that very day, I shall hasten herewith to praise his patriotism, character and virtue. For I am generous and forgiving, as are so many of us here. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2016 "2018-01-26T05:53:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If Mueller and his team were to reveal slam-bang evidence of Trump committing heinous crimes, Fox talking heads will claim the FBI is lying and will suggest Trump disband the FBI, DOJ, or both. Just to ask, does the president have this power, with or without Congress? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2017 "2018-01-26T06:29:26Z")
The president can fire the political appointees at DOJ and the FBI, but the agencies themselves, and the non-political officers in them, exist per Congressional statute. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2018 "2018-01-26T07:16:22Z")
You mean not even an Executive Presidential Order? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2019 "2018-01-26T13:05:44Z")
The Don will not go quietly into the night, and there are probably people in congress (and in the party’s money apparatus) who know they’re in Mueller’s (and the FBI’s) cross hairs. They’re running out of time and they suspect that the ballot box is not going to be their friend this time around – not unless they corrupt that process somehow. The GOP’s already doubling down on the two competing truths strategy to corrupt our view of criminal justice, and it might actually work. What happens when, with the help of Vladimir Putin, they apply the two truths strategy to the elections process? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2020 "2018-01-26T14:25:11Z")
Trump, obviously, has [declared the news to be fake](https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/25/politics/donald-trump-robert-mueller/index.html). This might be one of those times where having just a soupcon of credibility would help. I mean, when even your lickspittle Hannity is confirming the news, you’re probably not going get very far with the “fake news” argument. The Republican talking point emerging appears to be, “See, because McGahn refused the order, the administration is working as it is supposed to,” which is pretty obviously not how this works. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=100) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=102)