# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 108
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2141 "2018-01-30T15:17:07Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Ultimately the truth of the situation is the truth of the situation and the best way to hide the truth is by **hiding the truth**. I hope you didn’t try very hard coming up with another way to say “it is what it is.” ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2142 "2018-01-30T15:51:22Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > I hope you didn’t try very hard coming up with another way to say “it is what it is.” That depends on what the definition of the word _is_ is. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2143 "2018-01-30T16:20:12Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > That depends on what the definition of the word _is_ is. That’s why it is what it is! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2144 "2018-01-30T16:49:27Z")
If they think the Mueller investigation will end his, ah, “presidency”, what have they got to lose by firing him? They _migh_t get away with it. As it stands now, they are playing Russian Roulette with an automatic. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2145 "2018-01-30T16:54:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If they think the Mueller investigation will end his, ah, “presidency”, what have they got to lose by firing him? They _migh_t get away with it. As it stands now, they are playing Russian Roulette with an automatic. Half, or more, of their electorate would side with Trump. If they turn against him, the GOP splits in half. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2146 "2018-01-30T18:32:14Z")
The GOP has been tearing itself apart with factional infighting since Reagan. Despite that, they still manage to regularly get themselves elected. I don’t think even a successful impeachment and conviction would result in ending the Republican Party as an organization, unless a viable movement springs up to fill in the gaps. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2147 "2018-01-30T18:50:23Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > I hope you didn’t try very hard coming up with another way to say “it is what it is.” If you read the statement that way, then you have misread. While, yes, the Nunes memo will be fait accompli and so there’s not much use getting worked up over it at this point, that was not my point. Paul Ryan and Richard Burr asked for the memo to not be released, presumably on the basis that it was harmful to national security. I don’t know if that is because it will compromise Americans in the field, and get them killed, or if it is because it will damage FISA and the FBI, diminishing their ability to track terrorists and prevent catastrophes on US soil. Burr, in particular, I trust so if he’s asking for the thing to not go live, then I am with him. But if it does go live then, like I said, it’s almost certainly going to have the reverse effect from the one that Nunes was hoping - at least in the long term. The problem is, is that the document is based on real documentation. It’s not just some fictional text that Nunes came up with. If it was just fictional, then there would be no real way to counter or disprove it. But if it’s based on records and documents, then the memo begs the question and people will have to get to the base of those questions, exposing that underlying documentation to hundreds of interns and staffers in Washington. The ability for foreign adversaries to encounter the sources and means of the United States rises drastically, even if most of that part is not leaked to the press, but all of the rest will end up leaked by interns, staffers, and congressmen. Unless the reality bears out Nunes’ editing of the sources, he’s going to end up reinforcing the opposite view as the one he wanted. Given that he’s a moron and that Paul Ryan and Richard Burr are not, the safe bet is that that’s the outcome we can expect. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2148 "2018-01-30T19:24:20Z")
[Trump exploring idea of arresting Mueller, Mueller’s team](https://twitter.com/mmurraypolitics/status/958407948442710017) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2149 "2018-01-30T19:30:11Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Paul Ryan and Richard Burr asked for the memo to not be released, presumably on the basis that it was harmful to national security. You know how these guys operate. Isn’t it at least somewhat likely that they think it has positive political value unreleased that would go negative once it was exposed as partisan cherry- and nit-picking? But let’s hope, against all evidence, that you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2150 "2018-01-30T19:53:55Z")
Ryan wants the memo released: > **[House Speaker Ryan defends release of memo on alleged surveillance abuses](https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nunes-memo-paul-ryan-20180130-story.html)** > > House Speaker Paul D. Ryan defended the way the release of the memo, but warned against using it to discredit the special counsel's probe of Russian meddling. Also, the Republicans are refusing to release the Democrats’ response to the memo, nor are they allowing Democrats to view the underlying intel that the memo is based on. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2151 "2018-01-30T19:57:09Z")
Schiff has seen it, or says he has. Anyway, the Minority Report has already been written, therefore it’s going to be leaked if it isn’t released officially, Washington being what it is. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2152 "2018-01-30T20:02:59Z")
Yeah. Given the completely dysfunctional state of the House Intelligence Committee and the complete disdain between Schiff and Nunes, I wouldn’t be surprised if Schiff just posted the memo in his Facebook feed. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2153 "2018-01-30T20:13:02Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Yeah. Given the completely dysfunctional state of the House Intelligence Committee and the complete disdain between Schiff and Nunes, I wouldn’t be surprised if Schiff just posted the memo in his Facebook feed. And would be prosecuted for releasing classified documents. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2154 "2018-01-30T20:34:54Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Ryan wants the memo released: > [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-nunes-memo-paul-ryan-20180130-story.html](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-nunes-memo-paul-ryan-20180130-story.html) > > Also, the Republicans are refusing to release the Democrats’ response to the memo, nor are they allowing Democrats to view the underlying intel that the memo is based on. Well, whereas Burr is willing to call Nunes a moron, I think that Ryan has to look like he’s supporting his party in the House. He’s the Speaker of the House, Burr is in an entirely different section of the government and has no particular need to keep the peace. Ryan was trying to get them to run the document through the DoJ, ostensibly to be redacted, or to forward the information to Michael Horowitz for his investigation (which is the same investigation as Nunes’). If it had gone to Horowitz, then it would have gone away entirely. If it went through the DoJ, then at the minimum it would have slowed down the release and forced it to be mellowed out to something that Sessions was willing to approve. And it would have been redacted, so that it wasn’t compromising national security. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You know how these guys operate. Isn’t it at least somewhat likely that they think it has positive political value unreleased that would go negative once it was exposed as partisan cherry- and nit-picking? Realistically, the general public doesn’t care and will forget everything after two weeks. So long as its not during voting season, it’s not worth trying to reign in the stupid. Let Nunes et. al get it out of their system now so that you’re in their good graces during the election and can charm them to step back from the ledge and be reasonable for a few weeks. I suspect that the job of the Senate Majority Leader is to strategize and figure out how to use the rules of the Senate to screw the enemy. The job of the Speaker of the House is to try and make all those idiots look presentable every two years. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2155 "2018-01-30T20:42:18Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > And would be prosecuted for releasing classified documents. Would Article 1, section 6 apply? > [@US Constitution](#): > > The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation > for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid > out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all > Cases, except Treason, \*\*Felony \*\*and Breach of the Peace, be > privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session > of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning > from the same; and for any **Speech or Debate** in either > House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place. Probably a felony to disclose, but arguably he would be doing so as speech or debate? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2156 "2018-01-30T20:59:54Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Would Article 1, section 6 apply? > > Probably a felony to disclose, but arguably he would be doing so as speech or debate? Probably only if it were released into an official Congressional document. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2157 "2018-01-30T21:11:42Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > And would be prosecuted for releasing classified documents. Schiff has already said that the Minority in the Committee would only release their report after it had been scrubbed by FBI/DOJ to redact classified material. They are not the ones who are coloring outside the lines here. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2158 "2018-01-30T21:25:11Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Would Article 1, section 6 apply? > > Probably a felony to disclose, but arguably he would be doing so as speech or debate? Complicated, and what Gravel tried to do with the [Pentagon Papers in the 70’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravel_v._United_States). Seems as though if they follow his example for reading to the congressional record, but do not try to go to third parties to publish, they should be okay. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2159 "2018-01-30T22:38:24Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Schiff has already said that the Minority in the Committee would only release their report after it had been scrubbed by FBI/DOJ to redact classified material. They are not the ones who are coloring outside the lines here. Which doesn’t answer the question ‘IF you are trying to appear statesmanlike and not nakedly partisan, why not hold back the GOP memo until the Dem memo is vetted, and release them at the same time?’ Because, of course, this IS a nakedly partisan move. Ryan et al want the nasty allegations in the GOP memo to have plenty of time to soak into the public consciousness, without the inconvenience of any pesky facts that might contradict the story. (The allegation: that Rod Rosenstein VIOLATED THE CIVIL LIBERTIES of the guy the Russians openly called an asset of theirs, Carter Page, by okaying surveillance of Russian asset Carter Page.) Hilariously, and vaguely biblically, Paul Ryan three times refused to answer the ‘why not hold the GOP memo back so both can be released at once?’ question—answering twice with non-responsive blather, and the third time with “You’ve asked enough” to the questioner (CNN’s Manu Raju). The clip is only a minute and 39 seconds, after an unfortunate 30-second commercial–it’s worth waiting through: > **[Paul Ryan, reporter spar over memo release | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/01/30/paul-ryan-nunes-memo-raju-sot-nr.cnn)** > > House Speaker Paul Ryan goes back and forth with CNN’s Manu Raju about the release of the Republican memo alleging FBI abuses. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2160 "2018-01-31T00:27:29Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Which doesn’t answer the question ‘IF you are trying to appear statesmanlike and not nakedly partisan, why not hold back the GOP memo until the Dem memo is vetted, and release them at the same time?’ > > Because, of course, this IS a nakedly partisan move. Ryan et al want the nasty allegations in the GOP memo to have plenty of time to soak into the public consciousness, without the inconvenience of any pesky facts that might contradict the story. (The allegation: that Rod Rosenstein VIOLATED THE CIVIL LIBERTIES of the guy the Russians openly called an asset of theirs, Carter Page, by okaying surveillance of Russian asset Carter Page.) > > Hilariously, and vaguely biblically, Paul Ryan three times refused to answer the ‘why not hold the GOP memo back so both can be released at once?’ question—answering twice with non-responsive blather, and the third time with “You’ve asked enough” to the questioner (CNN’s Manu Raju). The clip is only a minute and 39 seconds, after an unfortunate 30-second commercial–it’s worth waiting through: > [https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/01/30/paul-ryan-nunes-memo-raju-sot-nr.cnn](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/01/30/paul-ryan-nunes-memo-raju-sot-nr.cnn) I have never understood how people can hold Paul Ryan out as an “intellectual.” He is one of the dumbest, most slow-witted people I’ve ever come across in Republican politics. Someone who is incapable of growing past their 14-year-old Ayn Rand phase has no business being Speaker of the House. My only quibble with your characterization of the allegation that “Rod Rosenstein VIOLATED THE CIVIL LIBERTIES of the guy the Russians openly called an asset of theirs, Carter Page, by okaying surveillance of Russian asset Carter Page,” would be to say, “Rod Rosenstein VIOLATED THE CIVIL LIBERTIES of the guy the Russians openly called an asset of theirs, Carter Page, by okaying _ **the renewal of an existing FISA warrant to continue** _ surveillance of Russian asset Carter Page.” It should be noted that to do that, Rosenstein via Mueller’s team would have been required to show that substantive evidence had been obtained through use of the previously-issued FISA warrant sufficient to renew it. I mean, unless the FISA judge appointed by Chief Justice John Roberts was in on the conspiracy, too. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=107) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=109)