# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 111
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2201 "2018-02-01T11:17:08Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > [“Mueller Zooms In on Trump Tower Cover Story”](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/us/politics/trump-russia-hope-hicks-mueller.html?partner=rss&emc=rss) > > Because the Dope is always firstest with the bestest, some of us may be getting calls from Mueller, as [a few of us were present at that meeting.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=831406) You were ninja’d by 4 posts. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2202 "2018-02-01T12:06:59Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I think you need to drill down a little more on how he was shepherded through to his nomination. > > [The Federalist Society and Heritage Foundation Wish List, plus ties to billionaire Philip Anschutz](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/us/politics/neil-gorsuch-supreme-court.html) (New York Times) > > [Gorsuch Refuses to Reveal his Billionaire Backers in Confirmation Hearing](http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/325027-gorsuch-refuses-whitehouses-request-to-ask-shadowy-backers-to-reveal) (The Hill) > > Maybe him being owned by people like this doesn’t bother you. It bothers me a lot. It bothers me, but now that he’s a supreme court justice, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. Bribery of a sitting justice is still probably a pretty serious crime. Again, I’m not saying I like Gorsuch. I didn’t like Scalia. I don’t like Thomas or Alito. But they’re free to render decisions as they please now. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2203 "2018-02-01T13:51:58Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > This is really interesting. I’m uncomfortable with it, because as a rule I don’t advocate stooping to the same level as your opponent or that the end justifies the means. But Republicans have learned how to weaponize the decency of Dems to not “go there,” and it always works to the disadvantage of the Dems. So I honestly don’t know. > > People say we’re “heading” for a Constitutional crisis. I think we’re already in one. > > Does that justify setting aside traditional norms of government? Really tough call, if not doing so potentially means there will be no government we recognize left to worry about. I have the same discomfort, but Nunes and the GOP have already abandoned norms of government with their version of the memo, so I don’t know that Schiff releasing his is another step down the slippery slope. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2204 "2018-02-01T14:10:12Z")
Nomatter what else happens, I’ll be happy as long as I find out what the deal was with [this story](https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/politics/draper-sterling-donald-trump-mad-men/index.html) from before the election. \*"Donald Trump’s campaign has made payments to an unusual new company for web advertising with little footprint beyond a New Hampshire home with a tongue-in-cheek name: Draper Sterling – a reference to Don Draper and Roger Sterling, two of the main characters on the Emmy-winning show “Mad Men.” Trump paid $35,000 to Draper Sterling last month, a business that lists a home in Londonderry, New Hampshire, as its principal address, according to the New Hampshire secretary of state’s website."\* ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2205 "2018-02-01T14:42:40Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Tonight, Don Jr. is hoping Hope Hicks doesn’t turn on him and vice versa. Every one of these people is hoping that every other one holds up under pressure. And a lot of these people don’t seem all that good at holding up to interrogation. Heh. “Interrogation” is overstating it a bit. Don Jr went and released his emails about the Trump Tower meeting to the public, on Twitter, with just a wee little bit of media coverage. I’m not sure Mueller or his investigators will have seen anyone wet their pants and start spilling any quicker once they get him under the lamp. Mueller Squad: “Mr. Tru–…” Don Jr: “OKAY! OKAY! We did it! I’ll tell you all the details! See, it started back when we were trying to find a place to hold the Miss Universe pageant and no one in the States wanted it, so we went to our friends … I mean bosom buddies… wait crap. Anyway, they were Russians, and …” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2206 "2018-02-01T14:49:24Z")
Hope Hicks was interviewed over [two days by Mueller’s team](http://www.newsweek.com/mueller-interview-trump-sessions-list-788180). I’m guessing she didn’t hold up. I’m also guessing, based on the recent reporting of her trying to hide those emails, that she didn’t tell the whole truth. I’m guessing that a 28 year old doesn’t want to spend her best years in jail. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2207 "2018-02-01T15:54:46Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m guessing that a 28 year old doesn’t want to spend her best years in jail. As if spending them with The Donald would be any better? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2208 "2018-02-01T16:32:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > As if spending them with The Donald would be any better? I mean, marginally? She gonna sing. She gonna sing loud. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2209 "2018-02-01T21:13:12Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > … [This](https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/30/politics/cia-director-pompeo-russia-spies/index.html) will probably keep me up, though. (CNN) > It shouldn’t, but under the circumstances, it does. > Nice that we learn about Sergey Naryshkin’s attendance from the Russian media. I, too, find this very worrying. Bringing the sanctioned Russian spies into the USA for this meeting took a certain amount of effort, and entailed a certain amount of risk—namely, that the Russians would reveal the meeting. The Russians revealed Trump’s Oval Office meeting, so Pompeo and his fellow plotters knew that this one might come to light, too. So, what was it that was so important for Pompeo to coordinate with the Russian spies? I can’t think of any answer that’s good for the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2210 "2018-02-01T21:23:20Z")
This is all beyond nonsense. It’s completely routine for US intelligence officials to be in contact with counterparts from other countries, including hostile ones. It’s completely routine for Israeli intelligence officials to be in contact with counterparts from Arab countries. And so on. If politics makes strange bedfellows, then intelligence work makes for even stranger ones. Anyone who is even remotely familiar with intelligence work is aware of this. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2211 "2018-02-01T21:35:24Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It bothers me, but now that he’s a supreme court justice, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. **Bribery of a sitting justice is still probably a pretty serious crime.** Again, I’m not saying I like Gorsuch. I didn’t like Scalia. I don’t like Thomas or Alito. But they’re free to render decisions as they please now. Of course it is. That’s why they legalized it up front with Citizens United and McCutcheon, among others. As for Justice Gorsuch’s maverick nature… [There’s conservative, and there’s activist](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/28/democrats-gorsuch-supreme-court-rulings-240030). (Politico) [Activist enough that his colleague, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, gave him a good slap](https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/ginsburg-slaps-gorsuch). (New Yorker) (I admit I enjoyed reading about the second one.) Guy looks like a total tool to me. I often wonder if we would be down the track we’re currently on if citizens of this country would have appreciated and raised much more of a ruckus over the disgusting overreach by McConnell to not even hold confirmation hearings for Merrick Garland’s nomination. If the public had brought more pressure to bear, would Republicans still be bold enough to count on their apathy to pull the bullshit we’re seeing now? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2212 "2018-02-01T21:41:55Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I, too, find this very worrying. Bringing the sanctioned Russian spies into the USA for this meeting took a certain amount of effort, and entailed a certain amount of risk—namely, that the Russians would reveal the meeting. The Russians revealed Trump’s Oval Office meeting, so Pompeo and his fellow plotters knew that this one might come to light, too. > > So, what was it that was so important for Pompeo to coordinate with the Russian spies? > > I can’t think of any answer that’s good for the USA. I can’t, either. I don’t trust Pompeo and never have. He’s an ideologue. That “transparency” thing obviously only means what they want it to mean. It’s not that a meeting was held. As you know, everyone not-a-mouth-breather understands this. It’s the secrecy that surrounded the meeting, such that we learn about it from Russian media – just, as you point out, like the Oval Office meeting. The one where Trump revealed sensitive classified Israeli intelligence. Which is why I said it _shouldn’t_ be worrying – but in our current circumstances, it _is_ very worrying. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2213 "2018-02-01T22:04:29Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I often wonder if we would be down the track we’re currently on if citizens of this country would have appreciated and raised much more of a ruckus over the disgusting overreach by McConnell to not even hold confirmation hearings for Merrick Garland’s nomination. If the public had brought more pressure to bear, would Republicans still be bold enough to count on their apathy to pull the bullshit we’re seeing now? It sure as hell bothered me. It was such a naked, bald-faced power grab, completely flouting the Constitution and all norms of good government. The fact that they got away with it scot-free … of course, the lesson to be learned was “Dang! We can get away with _anything_!!” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2214 "2018-02-01T22:11:59Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > It sure as hell bothered me. It was such a naked, bald-faced power grab, completely flouting the Constitution and all norms of good government. The fact that they got away with it scot-free … of course, the lesson to be learned was “Dang! We can get away with _anything_!!” That’s my belief, as well. It was lots of things that led us to this perilous time, but that was definitely a big one. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2215 "2018-02-02T00:14:04Z")
CNN is reporting/speculating (it’s hard to tell the difference some times) that Director Wray could quit in protest if The Memo is released. Things would get very interesting. If nothing else, the story would be about Wray vs The White House, and the content of the memo would be completely lost. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2216 "2018-02-02T00:19:22Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > CNN is reporting/speculating (it’s hard to tell the difference some times) that Director Wray could quit in protest if The Memo is released. Things would get very interesting. If nothing else, the story would be about Wray vs The White House, and the content of the memo would be completely lost. MSNBC says the FBI has already issued a statement that Wray will not quit, irrespective of whether the White House releases the memo. I think Wray understands his position as a bulwark against the administration’s intrusion into the FBI. [This](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/01/lawyers-for-rick-gates-withdraw-from-russia-case-383422) is interesting, though. (Politico) > [@](#): > > Three attorneys representing Rick Gates told a federal court Thursday they are immediately withdrawing as counsel for the former Donald Trump campaign aide, who is fighting special counsel Robert Mueller’s indictment of him on money laundering and other charges. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2217 "2018-02-02T00:41:13Z")
Journalist Garrett Graff interviewed on[Fresh Air](https://www.npr.org/2018/02/01/582358540/muellers-reputation-in-washington-is-stunningly-bipartisan-journalist-says) talks about Robert Mueller. he describes Mueller in 2007 when he was FBI director, as “about as apolitical and nonpartisan a figure as you could find in Washington.” gives me a much better sense of who Mueller is. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2218 "2018-02-02T01:32:27Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > [This](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/01/lawyers-for-rick-gates-withdraw-from-russia-case-383422) is interesting, though. (Politico) The intertubes reliably inform me that not all of Gates’ lawyers have quit. Importantly, [Gates recently hired Tom Green](https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/23/politics/rick-gates-new-attorney-mueller-russia-investigation/index.html), a lawyer known for making plea bargains in high-profile white collar criminal cases. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2219 "2018-02-02T01:37:33Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > The intertubes reliably inform me that not all of Gates’ lawyers have quit. Importantly, [Gates recently hired Tom Green](https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/23/politics/rick-gates-new-attorney-mueller-russia-investigation/index.html), a lawyer known for making plea bargains in high-profile white collar criminal cases. And when he’s not doing that, he eats mice on television. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2220 "2018-02-02T02:06:01Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > And when he’s not doing that, he eats mice on television. I look forward to the movie about the case, \*Donny Got Fingered \* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=110) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=112)