# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 123
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2442 "2018-02-10T13:44:38Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I have a hidden (or not so hidden) agenda: I’m trying to strip the bark off of our cultural propensity for confidence. I fully confess: **I want you to be scared.** The first step to solving a problem is acknowledging that we, in fact, have a very serious problem and acknowledge the complete scope of it. Every time Dr. Smith wailed “we’re doomed… _DOOMED!_” he was just laying some reverse psychology on Will and the Robot. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2443 "2018-02-10T13:53:23Z")
At the very least, people, especially those on the left, but also everyone else, got way too complacent about who they put in office. Complacency is what brought us Trump, but it also brought a pretty right wing Republican party and their obstructionist tactics. The 2016 election showed how complacent we ended up getting. Progressives and moderates assumed the nation would continue going leftward on social issues especially, but failed to see the growing backlash from the far right. The subsequent local special elections and the upcoming 2018 elections show people beginning to wake up from their complacency and taking action or vowing to. As much as people loved Obama for his strength and humanity, he was terrible at politicking. He didn’t seem to know how to handle GOP obstructionism and he and the DNC and pretty much the whole party didn’t seem to pay attention to the mounting Democratic losses in state elections until they realized the GOP had control of nearly every state office; they had focused too much on winning the presidency and not enough on winning Governor, Congressional and local legislature races. Now everyone who’s not on the right is trying to claw back their losses. We’ll see if there’s a beginning of success in Nov. As for Trump, he is destroying a lot of norms with his antics and the GOP is allowing him to. It’s going to take a lot of time and effort to fix what he and the right wingers have broken and it’s uncertain when that can start. I think we can recover from this, but it’s going to take a lot of sustained effort. If it were just Trump, he hasn’t been here long enough to completely break the system, but the GOP has been destroying norms since at least the Tea Party, so it’s going to be a harder effort, assuming the country can ever wake up enough to make a strong effort ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2444 "2018-02-10T14:33:55Z")
[Trump](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/962330457886076928) just responded to Michael Smerconish on CNN. > [@](#): > > The Democrats sent a very political and long response memo which they knew, because of sources and methods (and more), would have to be heavily redacted, whereupon they would blame the White House for lack of transparency. Told them to re-do and send back in proper form! So he just admitted it was political, not anything classified, that caused the holding back of the Democrats’ memo. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2445 "2018-02-10T14:34:02Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Gallup’s got everydamnthing. Speaking of Gallup, I just found [this map of Trump’s approval rating](http://news.gallup.com/poll/226454/trump-approval-highest-west-virginia-lowest-vermont.aspx?g_source=WWWV7HP&g_medium=topic&g_campaign=tiles). Texas and Colorado are that low? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2446 "2018-02-10T14:58:30Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Making fun of a child absolutely should be off limits. > > That said, the actual joke made here (Barron hasn’t demonstrated sufficient loyalty) is really at Trump’s expense (his standards of loyalty are insane), not at Barron’s. This was not making fun of Chelsea Clinton’s appearance, or joking about deflowering the Bush daughters. Let’s keep some perspective here. Agree, also Barron might be the only honest one in the entire bunch. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2447 "2018-02-10T14:59:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Trump is blocking the release of the Democratic response to the bullshit Nunes memo. > > [https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/politics/democratic-memo-trump-wont-declassify/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/politics/democratic-memo-trump-wont-declassify/index.html) They should just hand it to ALL the news outlets anyway… anonymously or something. Fuck this noise. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2448 "2018-02-10T15:08:42Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Speaking of Gallup, I just found [this map of Trump’s approval rating](http://news.gallup.com/poll/226454/trump-approval-highest-west-virginia-lowest-vermont.aspx?g_source=WWWV7HP&g_medium=topic&g_campaign=tiles). Texas and Colorado are that low? Texas isn’t the monolithic [red state](https://www.texastribune.org/2016/11/11/analysis-blue-dots-texas-red-political-sea/) that some coastal inhabitants think it is. (In spite of our red legislature. :rolleyes:) It’s big place with 254 counties and a spread-out population that’s concentrated in a few areas. The lower pointy part of Texas from San Antonio-Austin southward went solidly for Hillary. Interestingly (at least to me), the 50 counties with the [lowest population](https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/popcnty32010.html) have 5,000 or fewer inhabitants in each, the lowest 20 with 2,000 or fewer. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2449 "2018-02-10T15:55:33Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Texas isn’t the monolithic [red state](https://www.texastribune.org/2016/11/11/analysis-blue-dots-texas-red-political-sea/) that some coastal inhabitants think it is. (In spite of our red legislature. :rolleyes:) It’s big place with 254 counties and a spread-out population that’s concentrated in a few areas. The lower pointy part of Texas from San Antonio-Austin southward went solidly for Hillary. I’m only familiar with the eastern and south-eastern parts of the state. Houston and Dallas are the only real Democratic strongholds in that portion, though there are a goodly number of Dems around Nacogdoches and College Station (probably because of SFA and A&M). Other than that, it’s a red ocean from Corpus Christi to Texarkana. Thankfully, the population of that area is pretty sparse. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2450 "2018-02-10T17:05:53Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > I don’t think saying that Trump will appoint his youngest child to the justice department is in any way an attack on Barron. He’s appointed the rest of his family to positions that they are unqualified for. > > But whatever. I thought Tiffany had kept herself clear from the clusterfuck. No? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2451 "2018-02-10T17:11:36Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > I thought Tiffany had kept herself clear from the clusterfuck. No? Other than one appearance at one of the debates, yes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2452 "2018-02-10T17:41:07Z")
She wouldn’t let Candidate Annelid touch her. Smart woman. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2453 "2018-02-10T20:55:11Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > She wouldn’t let Candidate Annelid touch her. Smart woman. The earthworms will be picketing your house on Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2454 "2018-02-12T15:17:59Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > REALLY ?? By all accounts? Where do you come up with this stuff? …checks to make sure this is the pit thread…this is BY ALL ACCOUNTS the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on this board, surpassing another one of your classics. Do you even think before you write crap like this? > > By the accounts I’ve read, Vladimir Putin is a murderous and corrupt gangster running a criminal enterprise that has nuclear weapons. He has business owners tortured and killed in order to steal their assets, and is backed up with paperwork issued by a totally corrupt legal system that answers to him. This is the crux of the Magnitsky Act. He’s been known to poison foreign business executives. He imprisons, tortures and kills his political opponents and journalists that speak out against him. > > Now, I know that you and your ilk have a hard-on for him because he foments hate for minorities and persecutes gay people. Plus he had Pussy Riot attacked by bull-whipped wielding Cossacks. So conservatives are all in love with this democracy hating asshole. > > And because he’s such s major league bully that actually completely destroys then kills everyone that opposes him, Trump has a schoolgirl crush on him. ( “Maybe he’ll give me a present” ). And Putin knows this and spent a long time playing hard to get. > > And Putin’s just playing with him ( and the rest of the world). And Trump is still desperate for his attention. It’s so ridiculous, they’re both like comic book villains. > > And for those that still doubt that Putin, at heart, is a common criminal— remember that he literally stole a Super Bowl ring from NE Pats owner Robert Kraft. > > [Here's how Vladimir Putin stole a Super Bowl ring from the Patriots' Robert Kraft - CBSSports.com](https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-how-vladimir-putin-stole-a-super-bowl-ring-from-the-patriots-robert-kraft/) > > Or are you going to defend Putin? IMO, the lesson to be learned from this type of post is about the danger of surrounding yourself with likeminded people and getting information from ideologically-conforming sources. Because of the uniformity of belief and the dearth of counterpoints, things can seem obviously true when they’re not remotely so. This is perhaps an extreme example, of a poster confidently declaring something to be the stupidest thing she ever read on the board when it’s well known to be true to anyone even minimally informed about the subject. But the phenomenon has broader application, IMO, and could influence even intelligent posters, albeit in a subtler manner. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2455 "2018-02-12T18:02:06Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > IMO, the lesson to be learned from this type of post is about the danger of surrounding yourself with likeminded people and getting information from ideologically-conforming sources. I suppose once you’ve committed to a certain form of cognitive dissonance, [the point of view needs more frequent refresh.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20764518&postcount=2232) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2456 "2018-02-12T18:07:02Z")
No need for self-reference. Nobody here doubts your commitment. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2457 "2018-02-12T19:45:42Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > No need for self-reference. Nobody here doubts your commitment. Alright, a spokesman for the group - that’s what we need! A step in right direction if ever there was one… ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2458 "2018-02-12T20:26:07Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Pfff…what you and others don’t want to bring yourselves to admit, don’t want to understand, is that every single day that Trump is in office, every day that he and his allies remain in power, is a day that they are wearing down the good, civic-minded bureaucrats. This is not what Rachel Brand signed up for. I’m guessing that this government is not what many of the career bureaucrats signed up for – but this is what they’ve got at least until January of 2021. A change of Congress - if it even happens and that’s an entirely different thread of discussion – won’t change that. Trump and his billionaire plutocratic alliance is making the bureaucracy an uncomfortable place for people who actually care about preserving institutions for the public. This is an irreversible trend. If its an irreversible trend, why should I bother voting in the next election. Stupidity, bigotry and ignorance are going to win the day, so I might as well stay home with my playstation until the jack booted thugs come and take me away, or better yet join Trump so that I’ll be on the winning side when the purge comes. Is this the message you’re trying to get across? Because it’s the message I’m hearing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2459 "2018-02-13T01:21:11Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Alright, a spokesman for the group - that’s what we need! > > A step in right direction if ever there was one… Well, OK, long as its just the one. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2460 "2018-02-13T10:45:08Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > No need for self-reference. Nobody here doubts your commitment. To be fair, sometimes I doubt his commitment to Sparkle Motion. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2461 "2018-02-13T10:57:20Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > If its an irreversible trend, why should I bother voting in the next election. Stupidity, bigotry and ignorance are going to win the day, so I might as well stay home with my playstation until the jack booted thugs come and take me away, or better yet join Trump so that I’ll be on the winning side when the purge comes. > > Is this the message you’re trying to get across? Because it’s the message I’m hearing. I’m not telling you to do anything. By all means, go out and vote and be politically active - I certainly intend to do that. But just understand that we’re at the point where it might require more than just voting to preserve and defend democracy. For far too long, most of us have taken a lot of things in this country for granted. The public institutions that have made our society unquestionably better in the past 100 or more years were the result of political activism and spirited public protests to demand more people power. I’m optimistic that, at some point, we will have finally had enough, but I’m pessimistic in that there is going to be considerable damage done by the time we put a stop to all the madness. So in the short-term, the damage is done and it’s irreversible. Nevertheless, we have to vote and be active now to stop even more damage in the long run. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=122) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=124)