# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 126
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2502 "2018-02-16T19:35:20Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > Indeed. Snort. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2503 "2018-02-16T19:37:41Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > The more criminals he finds, the less chance Trump is a criminal? The more criminals he finds without indications of any connections to the campaign, then certainly that’s going to be a positive from Trump’s point of view. What’s the argument otherwise? How is today’s news bad for the Trump campaign? > [@SteveG1](#): > > I highly doubt they were all unwitting. That’s the term Mueller used in the indictment. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2504 "2018-02-16T19:37:49Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I highly doubt they were all unwitting. [Witless](https://www.google.com/search?q=witless&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1), surely. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2505 "2018-02-16T19:41:35Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The more criminals he finds without indications of any connections to the campaign, then certainly that’s going to be a positive from Trump’s point of view. > > What’s the argument otherwise? How is today’s news bad for the Trump campaign? Not speaking for any specific people here, but the argument otherwise is that 1) there’s no doubt that Trump colluded with the Russians and the only question is if Mueller will nail him on it, and 2) from today’s indictments we see that Mueller is hot on the case of the Russian perpetrators and it’s only a matter of time before he finds their Trump connection, if he hasn’t already. Requires that you accept the premise from the outset, so a lot of bias confirmation at work here, but that’s what I think is at bottom of the exultation. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2506 "2018-02-16T19:42:07Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The more criminals he finds without indications of any connections to the campaign, then certainly that’s going to be a positive from Trump’s point of view. > > What’s the argument otherwise? How is today’s news bad for the Trump campaign? > > That’s the term Mueller used in the indictment. I said ALL. I will accept that some or many may be unwitting - as in STUPID enough to betray… But to assume ALL are unwitting? Like I said, I doubt it. There was too much “back room shit” going on. Maybe Meuller just won’t tip his hand quite yet. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2507 "2018-02-16T19:42:53Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > No allegations of collusion or conspiracy with any campaign staff, according to the Bloomberg article. Contacts in the Trump campaign are specified as “unwitting.” > [@SteveG1](#): > > I highly doubt they were all unwitting. Perhaps it was a poor word choice and they meant “witless”? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2508 "2018-02-16T19:46:02Z")
Bannon has spoken with the House intel committee for 20 hours over the past two days, but he only answered 25 questions which he had himself provided to the committee, the answer to each of them was “No.” He told the committee that he was sort of, kind of, but not really, claiming executive privilege, even if the questioning involves the transition and not the administration. When committee members tried to ask him other questions, he said the administration had not authorized him to answer any other questions. Adam Schiff wants contempt charges filed. [https://www.yahoo.com/news/bannon-hill-closed-door-interview-russia-probe-160148311--politics.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews](https://www.yahoo.com/news/bannon-hill-closed-door-interview-russia-probe-160148311--politics.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews) ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2509 "2018-02-16T19:48:36Z")
[ul] [/ul]Busy day, Mueller: [https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.axios.com%2Fone-more-plea-deal-from-mueller1518807778-b97f90d3-23b9-4f0a-a386-97c164abd03a.html%3Fsource%3Dsidebar%3A9r3Y-HTx2q\_kFygoici3Y3oxEMU&cuid=5299687](https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.axios.com%2Fone-more-plea-deal-from-mueller1518807778-b97f90d3-23b9-4f0a-a386-97c164abd03a.html%3Fsource%3Dsidebar%3A9r3Y-HTx2q_kFygoici3Y3oxEMU&cuid=5299687) > [@](#): > > In total, Pinedo made tens of thousands of dollars by knowingly transferring hundreds of bank account numbers that were ultimately used to commit wire fraud. > > It is not immediately clear from the filings how Pinedo fits into the larger context of the Russia investigation. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2510 "2018-02-16T19:50:30Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Know how one can tell this is great news for Trump? Because he tweeted this about 10 minutes after the news broke: > > “Russia talk is FAKE NEWS put out by the Dems, and played up by the media, in order to mask the big election defeat and the illegal leaks!” > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/835916511944523777) Actually, I want to apologize to FP for this entire post. It was unfair and based on (mis)information I should have caught. I should have double-checked the dates and as this isn’t the first time I made this mistake, a simple _mea culpa_ doesn’t really suffice. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2511 "2018-02-16T19:53:31Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I said ALL. I will accept that some or many may be unwitting - as in STUPID enough to betray… But to assume ALL are unwitting? Like I said, I doubt it. There was too much “back room shit” going on. Maybe Meuller just won’t tip his hand quite yet. I think he’s trolling the trump team. “Oh, you guys were just unwitting pawns in russia’s meddling. You couldn’t have been competent enough to be involved, you weren’t even competent enough to know that you were being used to undermine our democracy.” Then trump fires back, “Of course I was in on the plot, there was no unwitting!” ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2512 "2018-02-16T19:58:06Z")
So Mr. Mueller has indicted 13 Russian nationals. What do they need to worry about? Extradition to the US? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2513 "2018-02-16T19:58:06Z")
Weird part of the story: > [@](#): > > After the election, the group organized both pro- and anti-Trump rallies, including a “Trump is NOT my President” rally in New York the week after the election and one in Charlotte, North Carolina, the following week. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/u-s-charges-13-russians-3-companies-for-hacking-election](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/u-s-charges-13-russians-3-companies-for-hacking-election) It’s pretty much accepted that the Russians supported Trump, so you have to wonder about the purpose of such rallies from their perspective. Perhaps some bet-hedging? (Earlier in that article it says that the Russians also liked Sanders - perhaps they wanted to build a connection to Sanders people.) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2514 "2018-02-16T19:59:03Z")
Its also very specific to these 13 indictments - there are likely still others to come. (bolding mine) - > [@https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics/mueller-russia-indictments-election-interference/index.html](#): > > Rosenstein said Friday that the indictment does not contain any allegations that any Americans knowingly participated in the activity. > “There is no allegation in \*\*this \*\*indictment that any American was a knowing participant in \*\*this \*\*illegal activity,” he said. “There is no allegation in the indictment that the charge conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election.” ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2515 "2018-02-16T20:02:04Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Weird part of the story: [Mueller Accuses Russians of Pro-Trump, Anti-Clinton Meddling - Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/u-s-charges-13-russians-3-companies-for-hacking-election) > > It’s pretty much accepted that the Russians supported Trump, so you have to wonder about the purpose of such rallies from their perspective. Perhaps some bet-hedging? (Earlier in that article it says that the Russians also liked Sanders - perhaps they wanted to build a connection to Sanders people.) They are sowing dissent. The goal is undermining America. That is the reason for supporting Trump. They also tried to organize both anti and pro Muslim rallies, at the same time and the same place. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2516 "2018-02-16T20:29:46Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The more criminals he finds without indications of any connections to the campaign, then certainly that’s going to be a positive from Trump’s point of view. > > What’s the argument otherwise? How is today’s news bad for the Trump campaign? Argument A: it might get Trump to stop yammering that Russia meddling is “fake news” and “Vlad said he didn’t do it and I believe him.” Those statements now (as if there was any doubt) make Trump look stupid, naive, disingenuous or a lying traitorous pig…take your choice. Argument B: Today’s indictments are about the Russian social media disinformation efforts. They’re not about delivering stolen e-mail to the Trump campaign. That shoe is still waiting to drop. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2517 "2018-02-16T20:33:04Z")
Yeah, they support both sides of an issue pretty frequently on social media. Last fall it was NFL anthem protests. Today, as I type this separate groups of Russian controlled Twitter accounts are promoting both #falseflag and #bangunsnow. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2518 "2018-02-16T20:35:17Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Weird part of the story: [Mueller Accuses Russians of Pro-Trump, Anti-Clinton Meddling - Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/u-s-charges-13-russians-3-companies-for-hacking-election) > > It’s pretty much accepted that the Russians supported Trump, so you have to wonder about the purpose of such rallies from their perspective. Perhaps some bet-hedging? (Earlier in that article it says that the Russians also liked Sanders - perhaps they wanted to build a connection to Sanders people.) The Russians were doing what they’ve been doing since the 1930’s - undermining American elections, setting citizens against each other, sowing confusion, spreading propaganda, etc. In the past it was almost universally done to benefit the left in America, but in this new era of Oligarchs and non-ideological competition, they’ll happily throw money and effort to any side that can help destabilize the U.S. and make Russia’s stance in the world a little stronger. The Russians have no love for Trump. They probably didn’t expect him to win - but even if he didn’t, their efforts would have damaged a Hillary Presidency out of the gate. But once Trump actually won, they shifted tactics and started exploiting the widening division between Trump and anti-Trump factions. Will the people decrying Russian intervention in U.S. politics remain as vocal in their condemnation as the Russians turn their attention to undermining the Trump administration? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2519 "2018-02-16T20:37:47Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Bannon has spoken with the House intel committee for 20 hours over the past two days, but he only answered 25 questions which he had himself provided to the committee, the answer to each of them was “No.” He told the committee that he was sort of, kind of, but not really, claiming executive privilege, even if the questioning involves the transition and not the administration. When committee members tried to ask him other questions, he said the administration had not authorized him to answer any other questions. Adam Schiff wants contempt charges filed. > [https://www.yahoo.com/news/bannon-hill-closed-door-interview-russia-probe-160148311--politics.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews](https://www.yahoo.com/news/bannon-hill-closed-door-interview-russia-probe-160148311--politics.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews) No, he spoke to Mueller for 20 hours and answered every question. The House Intel committee was a shorter interview and, as you said, he only answered the 25 scripted questions and refused to answer any expansions, etc. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2520 "2018-02-16T20:44:12Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > No, he spoke to Mueller for 20 hours and answered every question. How does that go against what Rick Kitchen said? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2521 "2018-02-16T20:48:37Z")
> [@simster](#): > > That tweet is from last year… But not too different from today’s… > > [@@realDonaldTrump](#): > > Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President. The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion! > > 2/16/18 12:18 PM No concern shown for a hostile foreign power messing with our democracy… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=125) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=127)