# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 135
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2682 "2018-02-20T22:26:31Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I can’t help but be really impressed with a guy who would throw away a law license and a career at one of the world’s most prestigious law firms just to be a third-tier schmuck in an organization of schmucks. His father-in-law’s a billionaire Russian oligarch and he was involved in helping pro-Russian activities in the Ukrainian government. Just another coincidental Russian connection among Donald’s friends. Anyway. I’m sure he’ll be fine. His father in law can buy him a new degree. Maybe he’ll be an architect this time! ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2683 "2018-02-20T22:29:25Z")
Well, yeah, **Merneith** , it sounds bad when you put it like _that_. But the van der Swann indictment doesn’t say that Trump was personally involved, so I think this is good news for Trump. He’s not implicated at all. This is just more evidence that Mueller has no case. This’ll all blow over soon. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2684 "2018-02-20T22:38:05Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Well, yeah, **Merneith** , it sounds bad when you put it like _that_. But the van der Swann indictment doesn’t say that Trump was personally involved, so I think this is good news for Trump. He’s not implicated at all. This is just more evidence that Mueller has no case. This’ll all blow over soon. Really??!! I see Mueller taking his time and building his case slowly. The midterm elections are what matters, and what Mueller moves on right before and right after that. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2685 "2018-02-20T22:42:27Z")
Exactly, the fact that the van der Swann indictment is not a smoking gun with Trump’s fingerprints on it tells us exactly two things. Furthermore, we must simultaneously hold these two thoughts in our heads because… reasons. 1. Every time Mueller indicts someone who isn’t Trump, Trump is totally vindicated. This is like Trump’s seventh total vindication in 2018 alone. That’s some top flight vindicating Bob. 2. The fact that Trump was not named shows that the Mueller investigation is total waste of time and Mueller would better serve the country by trying to predict where the next high school shooting will occur. How do you sleep at night Bob? Are childrens’ cries of anguish like lullabies to you (you sick fuck)? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2686 "2018-02-20T22:43:31Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Really??!! I see Mueller taking his time and building his case slowly. The midterm elections are what matters, and what Mueller moves on right before and right after that. Mueller’s pace is not politically motivated. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2687 "2018-02-20T22:50:39Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Really??!! I see Mueller taking his time and building his case slowly. The midterm elections are what matters, and what Mueller moves on right before and right after that. I read sarcasm in Bayards words, but maybe it’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2688 "2018-02-20T22:54:44Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I read sarcasm in Bayards words, but maybe it’s just me. That’s what I got, too. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2689 "2018-02-20T22:55:11Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I read sarcasm in Bayards words, but maybe it’s just me. So did I ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2690 "2018-02-20T22:55:58Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I don’t know if this is part of the same weird coincidence or a separate weird coincidence, but German Khan is also suing Buzzfeed for libel for publishing Steele’s dossier. Same “coincidence”. > [@JohnT](#): > > I read sarcasm in Bayards words, but maybe it’s just me. > [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > That’s what I got, too. > [@Superdude](#): > > So did I I’ll make it four. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2691 "2018-02-20T22:57:40Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I read sarcasm in Bayards words, but maybe it’s just me. Nope, it was dripping with sarcasm. Obvious is an understatement. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2692 "2018-02-20T22:59:57Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Really??!! Sorry, I was just being a smartass. Seriously, I think this is yet more bad news for Trump, and the end game of this is Trump himself being indicted, or at least his administration being hollowed out. I won’t be really happy unless Trump is drummed out of office in the most humiliating way possible, but if everyone around him falls, that will at least be an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2693 "2018-02-20T23:20:01Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Anyway. I’m sure he’ll be fine. His father in law can buy him a new degree. Maybe he’ll be an architect this time! City planner! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2694 "2018-02-21T02:52:37Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > van der Svann (great name!) is in trouble because, a while back, Yulia Timoschenko led a revolution in Ukraine to throw off their ties to Moscow. She was named Prime Minister until 2010, when she ran for President against Victor Yanukovich, who was pro-Russian and a client of Paul Manafort. Yanukovich won. > > A year later, she was arrested and tried for abuse of office. This was widely regarded as a political move. The Ukrainian government hired Skadden Arps(van der Svann’s law firm) to write a reported declaring that the arrest was not political. van der Svann (the son of a Russian Oligarch and head of Alfa bank, remember) was one of a group responsible for authoring the report. > > In other news, Paul Manafort’s daughter went to work for Skadden Arps in 2012. Just FYI. > > February 2014 - Yanukovich is run out of Ukraine. Putin invades Ukraine, reinstalls Yanukovich and annexes Crimea. Fighting continues. waitaminutewaitaminutewaitaminute. I get that Putin annexed Crimea. I get that his military activities in support of the annexation amounted to an invasion of the sovereign state of Ukraine. I missed the bit about Putin reinstalling Yanukovych as President of Ukraine. I suspect I’m missing some nuanced interpretation of events in which it can plausibly be claimed that Yanukovych had been reinstalled by Putin. Because, to me, that implies that he’s back in his presidential palace, ordering people around, rather than in exile in Russia, hiding from prosecution for high treason (which is where his Wikipedia article places him). Could you help me out? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2695 "2018-02-21T02:54:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Goldwater was a different cat even by the standards of his era. > > They should have taken him more seriously when he spoke out against the religious right, whom he loathed, and predicted would do enormous harm. And he was right. \*“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.” I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in “A,” “B,” “C” and “D.” Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of “conservatism.” “I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass.”\* ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2696 "2018-02-21T02:57:37Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Sorry, I was just being a smartass. Seriously, I think this is yet more bad news for Trump, and the end game of this is Trump himself being indicted, or at least his administration being hollowed out. I won’t be really happy unless Trump is drummed out of office in the most humiliating way possible, but if everyone around him falls, that will at least be an improvement. I won’t be satisfied with just that. Remember the scene from Game of Thrones? Shame. Shame. Shame. Dragged through the mud, covered with shit, humiliated, financially ruined forever, friendless, abandoned, broken, and then tossed in prison forever. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2697 "2018-02-21T04:25:31Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I missed the bit about Putin reinstalling Yanukovych as President of Ukraine. > > I suspect I’m missing some nuanced interpretation of events in which it can plausibly be claimed that Yanukovych had been reinstalled by Putin. Because, to me, that implies that he’s back in his presidential palace, ordering people around, rather than in exile in Russia, hiding from prosecution for high treason (which is where his Wikipedia article places him). > > Could you help me out? You’re correct. Yanukovych is MIA. I was conflating the invasion of Crimea with his fleeing office. I seem to recall that there was talk of reinstating Yanukovych, but I can’t remember where at this time. I might just be mistaken. Also according to Wiki - Yanukovych made off with the equivalent of $70 Billion Dollars, so if he’s still alive, I assume he has better things to do. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2698 "2018-02-21T04:26:08Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > And he was right. > > _“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. …"_ So, a “Goldwater Republican” is one that is sane? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2699 "2018-02-21T04:46:42Z")
> [@j666](#): > > So, a “Goldwater Republican” is one that is sane? Whoa WHOA whoa; no one said “sane”. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2700 "2018-02-21T04:52:20Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Yeah. German Khan is mentioned on page 25 of the Dossier by the by - > > [http://annotateddossier.com/#page25](http://annotateddossier.com/#page25) > > All of this to say - yup, total hoax. All a coincidence. Awesome post, **Merneith**. And yeah… there’s that pesky, hoax-ey dossier again. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2701 "2018-02-21T13:28:12Z")
> [@j666](#): > > So, a “Goldwater Republican” is one that is sane? No, A Goldwater Republican is one with balls, for good or for ill. There don’t appear to be any in the current Congress. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=134) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=136)