# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 136
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2702 "2018-02-21T13:42:50Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I won’t be satisfied with just that. Remember the scene from Game of Thrones? > > Shame. Shame. Shame. > > Dragged through the mud, covered with shit, humiliated, financially ruined forever, friendless, abandoned, broken, and then tossed in prison forever. Yeah, lets not go there. That didn’t work out all that well for those that shamed her. (Not so great for her family either.) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2703 "2018-02-21T14:47:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yeah, lets not go there. That didn’t work out all that well for those that shamed her. (Not so great for her family either.) Plus, I’d rather let Trump off scot-free than see him walk around naked. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2704 "2018-02-21T14:56:48Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Plus, I’d rather let Trump off scot-free than see him walk around naked. Justice is blind. And damned lucky in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2705 "2018-02-21T16:49:45Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > His father-in-law’s a billionaire Russian oligarch and he was involved in helping pro-Russian activities in the Ukrainian government. Just another coincidental Russian connection among Donald’s friends. > > Anyway. I’m sure he’ll be fine. His father in law can buy him a new degree. Maybe he’ll be an architect this time! Or a marine biologist! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2706 "2018-02-21T18:42:57Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yeah, lets not go there. That didn’t work out all that well for those that shamed her. (Not so great for her family either.) Tell me when it is, I’ll go on vacation 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2707 "2018-02-21T18:44:26Z")
The Guardian is reporting that Mueller’s office has filed updated charges against Manafort. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2708 "2018-02-21T20:17:10Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The Guardian is reporting that Mueller’s office has filed updated charges against Manafort. [Link](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/21/manafort-mueller-charges-new-rick-gates-trump-investigation-fbi-latest). > [@Guardian](#): > > Reuters saw a court record referring to the sealed charges, which were also directed against Rick Gates, Manafort’s former business associate, but the documents provided no details on the nature of the charges. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2709 "2018-02-21T23:18:16Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > No, A Goldwater Republican is one with balls, for good or for ill. There don’t appear to be any in the current Congress. Yes, the thing about Goldwater was that he actually _thought for himself_. For him there was no “party line” to adhere to. Obviously, that little habit had to be rooted out of the modern GOP. Might have been contagious. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2710 "2018-02-21T23:25:30Z")
Oh, dear. [Influence peddling may now be one of Manafort’s concerns](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/374869-mueller-investigating-whether-manafort-promised-banker-a-trump). (The Hill) Selling jobs in the White House in exchange for home loans. I’m sure Trump knew nothing about it. ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2711 "2018-02-22T21:40:44Z")
Additional charges just filed against Manafort and Gates. > **[2-22-18-Manafort-Gates-Indictment-EDVA.pdf](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/4385690/2-22-18-Manafort-Gates-Indictment-EDVA.pdf)** > > 776.99 KB > [@](#): > > In total, more than $75,000,000 flowed through the offshore accounts. MANAFORT, with the assistance of GATES, laundered more than $30,000,000, income that he concealed from the United States Department of the Treasury (Treasury), the Department of Justice, and others. Also this reminds me that I need to use the phrase “In furtherance of the scheme” a lot more often… ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2712 "2018-02-22T22:46:52Z")
Interestingly in light of the new charges, it’s now being reported that [Gates is firing the attorney that was supposed to be negotiating a plea deal, and isn’t planning on pleading guilty after all.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/ex-trump-staffer-rick-gates-fires-his-lawyer-in-russia-probe) More power to him, I guess, but those charges seem like the sort that are pretty hard to beat if the Feds have receipts. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2713 "2018-02-22T22:54:02Z")
each is being forced to Forfeit money and properties. I hope once they are forced to Forfeit everything they bought with their money laundering activities that they are fined additional amounts for tax evasion. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2714 "2018-02-22T22:57:45Z")
That seems like a shitload of money to launder, are they likely to have gotten away with it if this particular investigation wasn’t happening or does someone keep eyes on money movements that big? ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2715 "2018-02-22T23:06:09Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > Interestingly in light of the new charges, it’s now being reported that [Gates is firing the attorney that was supposed to be negotiating a plea deal, and isn’t planning on pleading guilty after all.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/ex-trump-staffer-rick-gates-fires-his-lawyer-in-russia-probe) More power to him, I guess, but those charges seem like the sort that are pretty hard to beat if the Feds have receipts. Or . . . maybe he’s [actually keeping his lawyer.](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/rick-gates-fires-lawyer?utm_content=bufferd91b4&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer) Probably ought to just look at this stuff once a week or so, who the hell knows what’s happening on a daily basis. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2716 "2018-02-22T23:43:36Z")
> [@Celidin](#): > > Also this reminds me that I need to use the phrase “In furtherance of the scheme” a lot more often… Yes, as in “In furtherance of the scheme to get ice cream, I propose that…”. It will drive my kids bonkers. I like it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2717 "2018-02-23T00:55:28Z")
Manafort has shitty options. But maybe not flipping is his best chance. He gets convicted, he might get pardoned. He flips, and he gets dead. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2718 "2018-02-23T01:12:24Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Manafort has shitty options. But maybe not flipping is his best chance. He gets convicted, he might get pardoned. He flips, and he gets dead. We’re thinking along the same lines. I have a private theory that in Manafort’s world, flipping is more dangerous than staying quiet – and even without a pardon (which I don’t think is coming, because if he is pardoned, he can be compelled to testify), he’s safer in prison than being set free to enjoy a cup of tea. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2719 "2018-02-23T01:18:13Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Manafort has shitty options. But maybe not flipping is his best chance. He gets convicted, he might get pardoned. He flips, and he gets dead. The optics of pardoning either Manafort or Gates would be bad for Trump, besides the possibility of the rumored coordination with the New York AG to bring state charges against either in case of a federal pardon. Trump has gone out of his way to distance himself from Manafort and point out that all of these crimes (well, the previous ones) occurred long before he was Trump’s campaign manager. Some of Gates’ new alleged tax-related crimes took place while he was still on the Trump campaign and assisting in inauguration planning. Trump’s likely rationale for pardoning any of his minions or himself for anything that took place during the 2016 campaign or shortly thereafter would be some word salad combination of hoax, fake news, and Democrat-controlled deep state witch hunt. There really isn’t a PR rationale for pardoning Manafort and Gates for crimes that happened a year or more before they even signed on to the Trump campaign. Tax evaders and money launderers don’t make the most sympathetic damsels in distress to the public. And there is always the possibility that Mueller could be holding back a charge or two in case of a pardon so that a new post-pardon charge could be brought and force Trump to look extra afraid/guilty if he were to issue a second pardon. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2720 "2018-02-23T02:11:01Z")
> [@Celidin](#): > > Additional charges just filed against Manafort and Gates. > > [https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4385690/2-22-18-Manafort-Gates-Indictment-EDVA.pdf](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4385690/2-22-18-Manafort-Gates-Indictment-EDVA.pdf) > > Also this reminds me that I need to use the phrase “In furtherance of the scheme” a lot more often… I read the first 15 pages or so and skimmed the rest. But holy crap, that is some major league serious crime. And this is going to fly under the radar, it it’s exactly a slow news week. But there should be shock and/or outrage that Trump had someobe like Manafort as his campaign manager or someone Gates handling his Inagural Committee donations. But it won’t. And I’m really curious about some of the vendors listed ( even though they weren’t implicated.) I know all the landscapers and home automation contractors in the Hamptons. Plus Yanukovych, the Ukrainian President that Manafort worked for, is an authoritarian thug and Putin’s puppet that was working to overthrow the Ukraine ( and give it to Russia ) from the inside. He won his presidential election in part, by poisoning his opponent. > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Yes, as in “In furtherance of the scheme to get ice cream, I propose that…”. It will drive my kids bonkers. I like it. This is going to be my catchphrase from now on as well. And boy, Manafort and Gates sure furthered a lot of schemes, didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2721 "2018-02-23T03:45:21Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > That seems like a shitload of money to launder, are they likely to have gotten away with it if this particular investigation wasn’t happening or does someone keep eyes on money movements that big? They’re likely to have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for those nosy teenagers and their dog. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=135) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=137)