# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 139
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2762 "2018-02-27T00:12:02Z")
Manafort won’t turn, IMO. The whole thing to him is a personal accomplishment much, much more than a vague idealogical victory or even “helping his team”. He won’t come out and admit that what he accomplished wasn’t really his doing, but the efforts of others and he was merely a conduit or a cog in the machine. I think that Manafort wants desperately to believe that it’s _his_ machine. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2763 "2018-02-27T00:14:14Z")
Maybe. None of his ilk seem to me to be likely to do a single day longer in prison than they need to. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2764 "2018-02-27T00:14:31Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > Not to speak for **Wesley Clark** but maybe others who have this feeling is that it seems to be based on the assumption that Mueller’s primary focus is aimed at Russians and Trump himself, with his campaign and administration to a lesser degree. Mueller is certainly turning up the pressure on Manafort with the additional charges and now the likely testimony of Gates in Mueller’s case-in-chief. Understood. But it wouldn’t make sense to ask (as WC did) “why is Mueller trying so hard to flip him?” if the entire basis for the assumption that he’s trying to flip him is that you think it’s consistent with what he’s trying to do. The premise of that question seemed to be that there’s no big need to flip him but that it’s apparent that he’s trying to do it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2765 "2018-02-27T00:29:11Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Maybe. None of his ilk seem to me to be likely to do a single day longer in prison than they need to. The Atlantic has an interesting write-up on Paul Manafort: [The Plot Against America](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/paul-manafort-american-hustler/550925/) > [@](#): > > And while Manafort is alleged to have laundered cash for his own benefit, his long history of laundering reputations is what truly sets him apart. He helped persuade the American political elite to look past the atrocities and heists of kleptocrats and goons. He’s made himself some pretty powerful enemies. He might be quite pleased to be safe in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2766 "2018-02-27T00:52:33Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Why such confidence that Mueller is “trying so hard to flip him”? Seth Abramson’s twitter feed implies he has a lot of info that could incriminate Trump. > ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2767 "2018-02-27T02:42:25Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > Due to Trump’s limited computer usage outside of his phone and Twitter and his distaste for reading (including, presumably, any kind of susbstantive emails), he seems to be largely insulated from a direct paper trail showing any personal knowledge about Russian activities, offers of help, or any indirect coordination. Therefore, given Manafort’s stated determination to go to trial, any focus on Trump directly will probably be confined to any financial wrongdoing or obstruction of justice. Manaforts testimony could shed some light on the infamous Trump Tower meeting. I think that Trump’s minions have kept him out of the loop enough to give him plausibile deniability - and because they know Trump has a big mouth and a propensity for fucking up. It’s Stupid Watergate. And he ran his mouth a couple of times , telegraphing that he might have known leaks were coming - but I don’t know if that’ll be enough. But I’m betting they’ll be able to pin some collusion on at least some of them, although I’m not sure what actual charges would be. But I’m not sure about Trump. It’s possible he doesn’t know anything because he doesn’t know ANYTHING. If you define “know” as having a solid grasp on the facts surrounding a particular subject. Even if it happened right before his eyes, the story would’ve rewritten itself the second it hit his brain. But I bet they come up with an obstruction of justice charge the size of the large print edition of War and Peace and that they charge lots of people on his staff. Not sure if they will try to indict him.If they pay half as much attention to his finances as they did Manaforts, someone’s in trouble - especially if they start looking at all his loan applications. But I don’t know if they’d go after him, his kids, or if they’d just refer over to state and federal investigators in NY ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2768 "2018-02-27T14:42:58Z")
Aaaand [yet another Twitter tantrum](http://www.towleroad.com/2018/02/witch-hunt/)… > [@Cadet Bone Spurs](#): > > “He’s got a very good point. Somebody in the Justice Department has a treasure trove of evidence of Mrs. Clinton’s criminality at her own hands, or through others, that ought to be investigated. I fully agree with the President on that.” @judgenapolitano on @marthamaccallum Show > 6:59 AM - Feb 27, 2018 > [@Cadet Bone Spurs](#): > > “I’ve been skeptical about the collusion and obstruction claims for the last year. I just don’t see the evidence…in terms of the collusion, it’s all a bit implausible based on the evidence we have.” Jonathan Turley on @FoxNews > 7:28 AM - Feb 27, 2018 > [@Cadet Bone Spurs](#): > > “We’ve seen NO EVIDENCE OF COLLUSION…I have seen nothing, the firing of James Comey and all of the aftermath, that suggests that the President has obstructed justice because he’s exercising his power as the President of the U.S. I just don’t see it.” Judge Ken Starr > 7:45 AM - Feb 27, 2018 > [@Cadet Bone Spurs](#): > > WITCH HUNT! > 7:49 AM - Feb 27, 2018 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2769 "2018-02-27T16:39:55Z")
> Meuller just filed a motion requesting all charges against Gates be dropped. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2770 "2018-02-27T16:42:13Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/968516999545573377) > > Meuller just filed a motion requesting all charges against Gates be dropped. Okay, somebody interpret this, please. ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2771 "2018-02-27T16:44:04Z")
Likely Gates just gave Mueller what he wanted on Manafort or someone else. So let the little fish go. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2772 "2018-02-27T16:48:13Z")
Doesn’t actually say that in the linked source. It says dropping charges 5-10 and 15-32 in the superceding indictment. Don’t know where the “all charges” might be coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2773 "2018-02-27T16:51:20Z")
> [@Crybaby\_Boobie](#): > > Likely Gates just gave Mueller what he wanted on Manafort or someone else. So let the little fish go. So now Gates doesn’t have the protection of federal prison to look forward to. Good luck, buddy. And hire a food taster, tout suite. ETA: Never mind. He’s still probably going to prison. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2774 "2018-02-27T16:52:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Doesn’t actually say that in the linked source. > > It says dropping charges 5-10 and 15-32 in the superceding indictment. > > Don’t know where the “all charges” might be coming from. Correct, he’s actually dropping “charges,” not “all charges.” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2775 "2018-02-27T16:52:33Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > So now Gates doesn’t have the protection of federal prison to look forward to. Good luck, buddy. And hire a food taster, tout suite. Stay away from umbrellas. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2776 "2018-02-27T16:54:54Z")
Trump announces his reelection 2020 campaign and names [Brad Parscale as campaign manager](https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/politics/brad-parscale-donald-trump-2020/index.html). That name should sound familiar because he is the [Cambridge Analytica](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/16/15657512/mueller-fbi-cambridge-analytica-trump-russia) guy. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2777 "2018-02-27T17:27:46Z")
That should be fine. It’s not like Trump has a habit of hiring people with a history of questionable interaction with Russia to his campaign teams. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2778 "2018-02-27T19:14:44Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Correct, he’s actually dropping “charges,” not “all charges.” Right. The point is that the implications are very different between one and the other. JohnT made a mistake, either in reading or understanding or both. Doesn’t seem to have taken it well, when pointed out (let alone being forthright in acknowledging his error). But it’s worth pointing out nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2779 "2018-02-27T19:38:27Z")
OK, where do you see **JohnT** not taking it well? That was his last post to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2780 "2018-02-27T19:39:39Z")
😃 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2781 "2018-02-27T19:47:22Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Doesn’t actually say that in the linked source. > > It says dropping charges 5-10 and 15-32 in the superceding indictment. Also, the dropped subset of charges were dropped without prejudice (i.e. Mueller can re-file those charges at any time). Obvious inference: Gates is being offered a break if he remains cooperative. If he tries to stonewall, or, worse, lie he’s at best facing all the original charges or at worst facing all the original charges plus additional perjury charges. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=138) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=140)