# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 140
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2782 "2018-02-27T19:48:23Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > 😃 Why are you posting a pic of Mueller’s face? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2783 "2018-02-27T20:59:20Z")
F-P, in an apparent need to have two threads in which he is the topic, is referring to my post (#142) in his [pit thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=518277). Not content to respond there, he apparently wanted to bring that debate here. For those who don’t care to slog through another thread, and since he brought it up, here is the comment: > [@](#): > > I will say, one of the most enjoyable aspects of the Mueller investigation of the past month has been seeing F-P reduced to carping about how other posters are reporting the news. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2784 "2018-02-27T21:49:58Z")
In totally unrelated news that has nothing to do with the Mueller investigation, no sir, nothing to see here, Jared Kushner’s security clearance has been [downgraded](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/27/jared-kushner-security-clearance-downgrade-427178). > [@](#): > > The president has the ability to grant Kushner a permanent clearance, but Trump said Friday — the same day the memo was sent — that he was leaving the decision to his chief of staff. > > “I will let General Kelly make that decision,” Trump told reporters. “I have no doubt he’ll make the right decision.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2785 "2018-02-27T22:22:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Doesn’t actually say that in the linked source. > > It says dropping charges 5-10 and 15-32 in the superceding indictment. > > Don’t know where the “all charges” might be coming from. Any idea where we can take a gander at the superseding indictment? Are 1-4 and 11-14 particularly significant? Does the list go beyond 32? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2786 "2018-02-27T22:27:26Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > In totally unrelated news that has nothing to do with the Mueller investigation, no sir, nothing to see here, Jared Kushner’s security clearance has been [downgraded](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/27/jared-kushner-security-clearance-downgrade-427178). Could have something to do with [this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/kushners-overseas-contacts-raise-concerns-as-foreign-officials-seek-leverage/2018/02/27/16bbc052-18c3-11e8-942d-16a950029788_story.html?utm_term=.4f3bcd07e232). \* “Officials in at least four countries have privately discussed ways they can manipulate Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, by taking advantage of his complex business arrangements, financial difficulties and lack of foreign policy experience, according to current and former U.S. officials familiar with intelligence reports on the matter.”\* ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2787 "2018-02-27T22:39:09Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > - > > “Officials in at least four countries have privately discussed ways they can manipulate Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, by taking advantage of his complex business arrangements, financial difficulties and lack of foreign policy experience, according to current and former U.S. officials familiar with intelligence reports on the matter.”\* Wouldn’t every bit of that also apply to Trump? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2788 "2018-02-27T22:45:03Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Wouldn’t every bit of that also apply to Trump? Unfortunately, you can’t easily downgrade the guy who is the ultimate arbiter of clearances. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2789 "2018-02-27T22:49:58Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Wouldn’t every bit of that also apply to Trump? They have to stand in line behind the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2790 "2018-02-27T22:55:04Z")
Wait. _All_ of them? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2791 "2018-02-28T00:18:43Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > In totally unrelated news that has nothing to do with the Mueller investigation, no sir, nothing to see here, Jared Kushner’s security clearance has been [downgraded](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/27/jared-kushner-security-clearance-downgrade-427178). Who’s going to explain to thump what was in the briefing? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2792 "2018-02-28T00:28:23Z")
In more unrelated news, news I’m sure which has absolutely nothing to do with Trump, and will likely be dismissed as something “already known”, [U.S. intel: Russia compromised seven states prior to 2016 election](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/u-s-intel-russia-compromised-seven-states-prior-2016-election-n850296). > [@](#): > > The U.S. intelligence community developed substantial evidence that state websites or voter registration systems in seven states were compromised by Russian-backed covert operatives prior to the 2016 election — but never told the states involved, according to multiple U.S. officials. > > Top-secret intelligence requested by President Barack Obama in his last weeks in office identified seven states where analysts — synthesizing months of work — had reason to believe Russian operatives had compromised state websites or databases. > > Three senior intelligence officials told NBC News that the intelligence community believed the states as of January 2017 were Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Illinois, Texas and Wisconsin. This story has a slow creep about it, [as in 2016 it was 20 states who have been attempted](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/red-alert-election-systems-20-states-targeted-hackers-n657036)… but only 2 states penetrated. Now it’s 21 and 7. Because of that, I find these reassurances to be anything but: > [@](#): > > All state and federal officials who spoke to NBC News agree that no votes were changed and no voters were taken off the rolls. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2793 "2018-02-28T00:44:34Z")
What’s the point of penetrating these databases and not doing anything? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2794 "2018-02-28T01:17:42Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > You’d be amazed at how much information investigators can get just by asking for it. Not everything needs to be subpoenaed. > > (On a side note, I can’t believe I just spelled “subpoenaed” correctly on the first try. Do I get into law school now?) I’m wildly impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2795 "2018-02-28T01:30:45Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > What’s the point of penetrating these databases and not doing anything? > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I don’t know all the uses. But one use is to target precincts with a lot of democrats (if your goal is to help the republicans) and change/delete people’s voter registration information. That way when they go to vote, they won’t be allowed to. This will also create long lines and will mean people will just go home instead of voting. That can throw close races. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2796 "2018-02-28T02:07:31Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Any idea where we can take a gander at the superseding indictment? Are 1-4 and 11-14 particularly significant? Does the list go beyond 32? I just took a look at it, but I closed the window and I’m not going to hunt it done again. I think I linked to it via Newsweek But it looks like 1-4 were subscribing to a false individual tax return and failing to register foreign accounts or something. What was dismissed is more tax return falsification stuff - and lots of it, and all the bank fraud charges. So it sounds like he cut a good deal. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > What’s the point of penetrating these databases and not doing anything? > > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk They might have been looking to collect data in order to profile voters in certain areas for media targeting rather than trying to change it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2797 "2018-02-28T02:23:16Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I can’t wait to see how [this event](https://apnews.com/c303bcc5511d402b877f9555bb23bc0f/China-prosecuting-tycoon-who-considered-Kushner-investment) is entangled in the whole Trumpsia mess:I’m starting to think that we need to be asking “how many countries did/do the Trumps help launder money from”, not “did they do anything wrong”. And a few days later, comes this: > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Could have something to do with [this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/kushners-overseas-contacts-raise-concerns-as-foreign-officials-seek-leverage/2018/02/27/16bbc052-18c3-11e8-942d-16a950029788_story.html?utm_term=.4f3bcd07e232). > \* > “Officials in at least four countries have privately discussed ways they can manipulate Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, by taking advantage of his complex business arrangements, financial difficulties and lack of foreign policy experience, according to current and former U.S. officials familiar with intelligence reports on the matter.”\* From that article (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > One of his top business concerns was what to do with his family’s investment in 666 Fifth Ave. in New York, which the company bought under his direction for $1.8 billion in 2007, the highest price paid at the time for a U.S. office tower. The purchase became troubled as the Great Recession hit, and Kushner refinanced it, leaving the company with a $1.2 billion debt that comes due in January 2019. > > The Manhattan property has been a particularly nettlesome problem inside the government because Kushner’s company has sought foreign money on the project. > > Kushner and his company had proposed a redevelopment plan that would double the building’s size, requiring major new investment. Before Trump took office, Kushner and other company officials explored several options for the financing. **They met with an executive of a Chinese-run insurance company, Anbang, which had bought the Waldorf Astoria Hotel**. They also discussed a possible investment by the former finance minister of Qatar, who oversaw an investment fund. But after Kushner served as Trump’s senior adviser for a few months in the White House, questions arose about potential conflicts of interest, the financing talks ended, and neither Anbang nor the Qatari fund signed on. Exactly how many rich people are only rich because they’re laundering money? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2798 "2018-02-28T03:07:22Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Also, the dropped subset of charges were dropped without prejudice (i.e. Mueller can re-file those charges at any time). > > Obvious inference: Gates is being offered a break if he remains cooperative. If he tries to stonewall, or, worse, lie he’s at best facing all the original charges or at worst facing all the original charges plus additional perjury charges. This is just idle “what if” thinking… Suppose Meuller is doing a “Dirty Harry” here. He drops charges, lets all the crooks think Gates turned on them, and then uses Gates’ fear of getting murdered to squeeze him more. He has to know that people who annoy Putin often “have an accident”. Let him think he will be next and sweat him. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2799 "2018-02-28T03:32:09Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > He has to know that people who annoy Putin often “have an accident”. Or commit suicide by several shots to the back of the head. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2800 "2018-02-28T04:02:03Z")
I made a weird typo in post 2795, I accidently put my reply to 5 Year Lurker inside the quote box so it looks like it’s part of his post. I’m going to flag it to a moderator to remove it or fix it ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/2801 "2018-02-28T05:06:47Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I made a weird typo in post 2795, I accidently put my reply to 5 Year Lurker inside the quote box so it looks like it’s part of his post. I’m going to flag it to a moderator to remove it or fix it Fixed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=139) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=141)