# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 155
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3082 "2018-03-09T23:15:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That works for me. I really don’t know if this post is enough to report for, but thought to just mention here… ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3083 "2018-03-09T23:49:35Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > …I fully expect as a last resort he WILL try to claim ignorance (or the “too stupid to do it” defense - which is already being floated). What sinks that as a defense is not only the principle that ‘ignorance of the law is no defense,’ but in Trump’s case, his many actions and utterances in pursuit of the goal of covering up contacts with Russians, intent (carried out in Comey’s case) to fire investigators, etc. “Consciousness of guilt” is demonstrated by the cover-up attempts, and consciousness of guilt is, under US law, circumstantial _ **evidence** _ of guilt. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3084 "2018-03-10T03:51:19Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > Of course there could be. He’s a fucking moron … You convinced me that his behavior is not just an attempt to distract us, but an attempt to set up a defense of diminished capacity. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I highly doubt if that’s true. > > Perhaps you can give an example of someone prosecuted for something that was his responsibility to know but that he didn’t. Look into the Park Doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3085 "2018-03-10T04:58:10Z")
> [@j666](#): > > You convinced me that his behavior is not just an attempt to distract us, but an attempt to set up a defense of diminished capacity. > Look into the Park Doctrine. The Park Doctrine. That is good. SCOTUS. > [@](#): > > The Court held that if someone were to willingly be in charge of a company, and therefore its problems, **then he or she willingly accepts the consequences of any illegal practices that his or her company or organization is involved in**. An exception is made if the problem is impossible to fix. While trumps administration is not a ‘company’ HE SURE IS. An interesting precedence could be used. Just because he claims he did not know, does not mean that he is not culpable. The indictments against trump must be longer than my arm at this point. He will never live long enough to get through all the court proceedings. The new trump reality show will be trump in court. The TIC channel. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3086 "2018-03-10T13:51:37Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > The new trump reality show will be trump in court. Now I have a mental image of Judge Judy tearing the Dotard another new one each time he uncorks another bit of nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3087 "2018-03-10T14:19:33Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > All of these threads and I think some are still overestimating the level at which he is operating. Complete seat of the pants, knee-jerk, unthinking, instinctive reaction. That’s what he does. In general, he’s not contemplating things, thinking them through, planning, plotting, etc. > > Does anyone think it would be difficult to hide something from Trump if you wanted to? Does anyone in this thread actually think that would be the slightest struggle, to hide something you didn’t want him to know? > > Someone was up to some bad shit. For me, whether Trump himself was at the center of that or peripheral to it as people thought to use his power for their own ends is pretty immaterial. I’m happy for a trial to figure that out (won’t likely come to that, but I can dream). There is no reason to try and stop the investigation, then. The second he fired Comey, he admitted that there was something to cover up. I do not understand the need of people who hate Trump to come up with excuses for why he was not involved. He was. We know he was, because he acts like someone who was. If we didn’t have all the partisan problems, the second he fired the investigator he would have been impeached. You fire the investigator because you are guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3088 "2018-03-10T14:38:00Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Now I have a mental image of Judge Judy tearing the Dotard another new one each time he uncorks another bit of nonsense. THAT I would watch ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3089 "2018-03-10T14:41:17Z")
Any guesses on when the Mueller investigation will reach its climax (so to speak)? IOW when will the shit well and truly hit thump’s fan? Two months? Six months? Another year? I mean if it goes on until election day 2020… ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3090 "2018-03-10T14:43:48Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Mueller seems to have reason to believe that the Trump campaign [was attempting to set up a secret back channel to the Kremlin](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/mueller-gathers-evidence-that-2016-seychelles-meeting-was-effort-to-establish-back-channel-to-kremlin/2018/03/07/b6a5fb8c-224b-11e8-94da-ebf9d112159c_story.html?utm_term=.2ccf35544880). Coming up empty on a legitimate reason for this. I read the link. What, actually, is a back channel? What type of medium are they talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3091 "2018-03-10T14:52:02Z")
[Trump lawyers offer interview if investigation wraps in 60 days](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-lawyers-seek-deal-with-mueller-to-spur-end-of-russia-probe-2018-03-09) I think it is cute that they think they have some leverage against Mueller. But even they think there are months left in the investigation. I think it hits the fan in late summer or early fall, right before the midterm elections. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3092 "2018-03-10T14:54:20Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Any guesses on when the Mueller investigation will reach its climax (so to speak)? IOW when will the shit well and truly hit thump’s fan? Two months? Six months? Another year? I mean if it goes on until election day 2020… I wonder the same thing. I suspect there are two things happening. 1. Mueller is dotting his I’s and crossing his T’s. 2. So much new shit comes to light Every. Freeking. Day, that they have to bring in a new investigator to look into it. I don’t believe Mueller is playing politics and is waiting for the right moment to drop the bomb. It just seems that there is SO much shit that he is going to clean it ALL out. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3093 "2018-03-10T15:04:03Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > [Trump lawyers offer interview if investigation wraps in 60 days](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-lawyers-seek-deal-with-mueller-to-spur-end-of-russia-probe-2018-03-09) > > I think it is cute that they think they have some leverage against Mueller. But even they think there are months left in the investigation. I think it hits the fan in late summer or early fall, right before the midterm elections. The Fuck? “Stop it already. We don’t want you to keep investigating because we are afraid of what you might find”. Bwwaaahaahahah. Mueller probably has enough already. I’m hoping that he is collecting enough that a simple pardon from Pence will not really help trump, and that State AG’s are in the batters box. trump needs prison time. An example needs to be made of him. It’s really the only way to secure our democracy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3094 "2018-03-10T15:21:56Z")
You think that will do it? If your system will still allow the likes of McConnell and Sessions to behave as they have, your democracy will still be broken. You might want to see about enshrining some traditions and norms concerning conflicts of interest and financial disclosure into law, too. Trump’s just the symptom of a disease. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3095 "2018-03-10T15:38:15Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > … > 2. So much new shit comes to light Every. Freeking. Day, that they have to bring in a new investigator to look into it. This, for sure. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe Mueller is playing politics and is waiting for the right moment to drop the bomb. It just seems that there is SO much shit that he is going to clean it ALL out. I agree. I think he’s playing it absolutely straight. He might be the only straight shooter in Washington. You know how in crime shows they have an incident room with a board where they put up pictures and draw lines and try to map out the connections among the suspects, victims, locales, dates, etc? I think Mueller must order markers, post-it notes, and string by the case. God, I hope that if they’re doing any of this online, the servers are safely tucked away on the dark side of the planet Zephron. To break into this material would be a hacker’s dream. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3096 "2018-03-10T15:43:44Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > You know how in crime shows they have an incident room with a board where they put up pictures and draw lines and try to map out the connections among the suspects, victims, locales, dates, etc? Always on glass, too. Whiteboards aren’t good enough for TV. Or transparent enough for camera placement. Yes, it’s getting hard to keep track of all the members of the Trump crime syndicate, at least for those of us not still saying “There’s nothing there, nothing, nothingburger” and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3097 "2018-03-10T15:44:15Z")
They need to have all those strings and post-its and photos on some sort of 3D wire lattice or something. A 2D board isn’t sufficient to represent the scope of this investigation. New mathematics we haven’t invented until now because we didn’t need to may be involved as well. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3098 "2018-03-10T15:57:17Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > They need to have all those strings and post-its and photos on some sort of 3D wire lattice or something. A 2D board isn’t sufficient to represent the scope of this investigation. New mathematics we haven’t invented until now because we didn’t need to may be involved as well. It’s a 4-D investigation. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3099 "2018-03-10T17:51:36Z")
> [@j666](#): > > You convinced me that his behavior is not just an attempt to distract us, but an attempt to set up a defense of diminished capacity. I think some people keep his actions are in alignment with a plan rather than just the chaotic flailings of an arrogant, unethical idiot. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3100 "2018-03-10T18:06:54Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > You know how in crime shows they have an incident room with a board where they put up pictures and draw lines and try to map out the connections among the suspects, victims, locales, dates, etc? I think Mueller must order markers, post-it notes, and string by the case. For his sake, I hope he’s only using [Lannigan’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzEkAldWLtg). ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3101 "2018-03-10T18:13:41Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I think some people keep his actions are in alignment with a plan rather than just the chaotic flailings of an arrogant, unethical idiot. And it’s only going to get worse. “With Key Aides Headed For The Exits, Trump Set To Make More Solo Decisions” > [@](#): > > The president has long considered himself his own best consultant, saying during the presidential campaign: “I’m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and I’ve said a lot of things.” > > Trump has told confidants recently that he wants to be less reliant on his staff, believing they often give bad advice, and that he plans to follow his own instincts, which he credits with his stunning election, according to two people who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about private conversations. [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/key-aides-gone-trump-follow-instincts](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/key-aides-gone-trump-follow-instincts) Oh goody! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=154) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=156)