# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 156
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3102 "2018-03-10T18:48:50Z")
One of those “I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry” moments. More Trump is sure to be amusing, but he might also just destroy the planet. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3103 "2018-03-10T18:55:32Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > One of those “I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry” moments. Oh, I think both are appropriate- simultaneously, if possible. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3104 "2018-03-10T19:20:50Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > You think that will do it? If your system will still allow the likes of McConnell and Sessions to behave as they have, your democracy will still be broken. You might want to see about enshrining some traditions and norms concerning conflicts of interest and financial disclosure into law, too. Trump’s just the symptom of a disease. Yep. But putting a few of these assholes in prison would be a good start. Next up, educate the public about electing people that are criminals and con-men that only care about themselves. Baby steps I’m afraid. But we MUST make this first big step and show his supporters that our country will NOT put up with this bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3105 "2018-03-10T19:58:13Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I wonder the same thing. I suspect there are two things happening. > > 1. Mueller is dotting his I’s and crossing his T’s. > 2. So much new shit comes to light Every. Freeking. Day, that they have to bring in a new investigator to look into it. > > I don’t believe Mueller is playing politics and is waiting for the right moment to drop the bomb. It just seems that there is SO much shit that he is going to clean it ALL out. I wonder if he is going to examine every loan application ever submitted by the Trump Organization to any financial institution for fraud? Like he did with Manafort and Gates. THAT would be spectacular. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3106 "2018-03-10T20:07:28Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I wonder if he is going to examine every loan application ever submitted by the Trump Organization to any financial institution for fraud? Like he did with Manafort and Gates. THAT would be spectacular. If nothing else, the next time someone like him tries to run for office, all the banks and investment firms that he is involved with will stop supporting him, as they don’t want their deals having too much scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3107 "2018-03-10T22:49:20Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > They need to have all those strings and post-its and photos **on some sort of 3D wire lattice** or something. A 2D board isn’t sufficient to represent the scope of this investigation. … I hope not. Someone working late could get tangled in it, pierce an artery trying to get free, and expire of exsanguination–giving Trump an excuse to shut the whole thing down. (It would make a great scene in the TV movie, though.) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3108 "2018-03-10T23:24:11Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I wonder if he is going to examine every loan application ever submitted by the Trump Organization to any financial institution for fraud? Like he did with Manafort and Gates. THAT would be spectacular. I assume that at this point, Mueller has trumps tax returns? Perhaps he doesn’t’ need them. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3109 "2018-03-10T23:29:13Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Any guesses on when the Mueller investigation will reach its climax (so to speak)? IOW when will the shit well and truly hit thump’s fan? Two months? Six months? Another year? I mean if it goes on until election day 2020… Just spit ballin’, because we can’t do more: When will something happen to Trump? Not until either near or after the mid-terms, in my opinion. I agree with **enipla** that Mueller isn’t political. But he is strategic. I have said before and still believe that he has seen the writing on the wall (Jeebus! Who hasn’t!?) with respect to how seriously his report and recommendations would be taken by this particular Congress. He’ll time the ‘climax’ for maximum impact on the mid-terms – and frankly, I think he’ll struggle to make that deadline, with all the data and criminal activity he must process. Meanwhile, I expect he’ll continue to roll out plea deals, indictments and grand jury proceedings like one long, loud, wet, stenchy Trumpian fart between now and well into 2019. He’s already started, with that masterful 37-page speaking indictment of the 12 Russians and one American, which he and Rosenstein cleverly used to get Trump to legitimize the investigation and stop all the “witch hunt” talk. He can continue to fuck around with Trump’s head, pretending he needs Trump’s interview (he doesn’t, except to decorate his work with a few more Lying to the FBI charges) to demonstrate Trump’s reluctance to cooperate with the investigation to the public, while he carries on with the real work behind the scenes. It’s not in Mueller’s best interest to draw the thing out any longer than he must, because the more time it takes, the more it gives ammunition to those who want to claim he’s on a fishing expedition à la Ken Starr. He has to continue to show results or the long knives come out. No problem; he will. I’ll stand by my ongoing time estimate of the end of this month/beginning of April, within a few weeks more or less, when the stench starts to become positively eye watering. But Mueller’s report and recommendation… that will have to wait awhile. September at the earliest, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3110 "2018-03-10T23:30:17Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I assume that at this point, Mueller has trumps tax returns? Perhaps he doesn’t’ need them. I think Comey would have subpoenaed the tax records as one of the very first things he did in July 2016 when he started the investigation. There’s no better starting point for a complex investigation like this one. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3111 "2018-03-10T23:43:00Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > [Trump lawyers offer interview if investigation wraps in 60 days](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-lawyers-seek-deal-with-mueller-to-spur-end-of-russia-probe-2018-03-09) > > I think it is cute that they think they have some leverage against Mueller. But even they think there are months left in the investigation. I think it hits the fan in late summer or early fall, right before the midterm elections. More to the point, it’s bizarre that his lawyers would expect Mueller to regard any such putative interview as anything more than an opportunity to sit down for a few hours and let the America-hating fuckstick lie at him. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3112 "2018-03-11T00:01:43Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > They need to have all those strings and post-its and photos on some sort of 3D wire lattice or something. A 2D board isn’t sufficient to represent the scope of this investigation. New mathematics we haven’t invented until now because we didn’t need to may be involved as well. This must be the 4-D chess everyone was talking about… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3113 "2018-03-11T00:23:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > More to the point, it’s bizarre that his lawyers would expect Mueller to regard any such putative interview as anything more than an opportunity to sit down for a few hours and let the America-hating fuckstick lie at him. If it’s under oath, it becomes evidence. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3114 "2018-03-11T01:01:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If it’s under oath, it becomes evidence. 😉 Pshyeah, like _that’s_ gonna happen. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3115 "2018-03-11T02:15:39Z")
Why mess around? I’d just toss a subpoena in his face and say “see you in court, fuck face!” As if Mueller would ever agree to a time limit on his investigation. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3116 "2018-03-11T13:40:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Why mess around? I’d just toss a subpoena in his face and say “see you in court, fuck face!” As if Mueller would ever agree to a time limit on his investigation. Considering all the crap that he has done, I suspect that he will still be being investigated long after he is gone. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3117 "2018-03-11T15:39:59Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If it’s under oath, it becomes evidence. 😉 Does it need to under oath? I think lying to law enforcement is a crime in case, isn’t it? “Under oath” makes it perjury, but don’t you put yourself at risk anyway? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3118 "2018-03-11T15:45:48Z")
Not for the world’s most brilliant man! He can simply improv on the fly and weave complex patterns of brilliant mendacity that will leave poor old Bob standing there agape like an ox stunned with a hammer. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3119 "2018-03-11T15:53:06Z")
So: there’s that mystery guy, George Nader, who was involved in setting up discussions with Trump and the UAE. He’s recently been tuned by Mueller. Eric Prince, founder of Blackwater and bro of Betsy DeVos, met with the UAE in the Seychelles…AND with Russians. Prince has testified that the meeting was happenstance since the Russians were there coincidentally . But now it is believed that Nader is saying he facilitated the meeting so Prince could set of the backchannel between the Trump campaign and Russia. If any significant bit of this is true and Mueller is using Nader to get to Prince, and thereby prove the Trump/Russia backchannel - Oy. The fact that this is one of many trails being checked out and each requires time and patience is all the more reason why this is taking so long. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3120 "2018-03-11T16:22:15Z")
OK, so George Nader… [George Nader](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Nader) was an actor who fled from the USA to Germany for fear of conservative rage. He is mostly know for his portrayal of recurring character named [Jerry Cotton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Cotton). Cotton’s occupation ? FBI agent. Hmm… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3121 "2018-03-11T16:22:41Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > The Fuck? “Stop it already. We don’t want you to keep investigating because we are afraid of what you might find”. > > Bwwaaahaahahah. Mueller probably has enough already. I’m hoping that he is collecting enough that a simple pardon from Pence will not really help trump, and that State AG’s are in the batters box. > > trump needs prison time. An example needs to be made of him. It’s really the only way to secure our democracy. Nice. So now I can point to Trump’s lawyers trying to stop the investigation, so people can’t just say it’s Trump being stupid and not knowing the implications. The lawyers definitely do know, and the only reason to try and stop the investigation would be if they think doing so will protect their client. Meaning there is something bad to find. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=155) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=157)