# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 172
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3422 "2018-03-20T02:26:36Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m not even sure that he has to fire Mueller himself; he could simply discredit him to sow enough confusion in the minds of Americans that there’s doubt about the merits of any case Mueller brings forward. … No, not really. Trump cannot really discredit anyone. No one believes Trump. Some people just don’t care that he lies. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3423 "2018-03-20T02:30:36Z")
Lots of people believe Trump. Lots of people believe Fake News! because Trump says so. Lots of people think that the fact there’s so many negative stories about the laughable, inept, racist, fascist Trump White House not because it’s laughable, inept, racist and fascist but because CNN is in the tank for Hilary (their casual usage, not mine. I think it’s weird). ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3424 "2018-03-20T03:27:35Z")
Yes, I’ve heard people say such, but they never seem to believe it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3425 "2018-03-20T05:27:33Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > So the goalposts move once again. From “no evidence” to “we was framed!”. > > Trump’s latest attorney alleges that there “was a secret “brazen plot” by the FBI to illegally exonerate Hillary Clinton and, if she didn’t win the election, to then frame Donald Trump with a falsely created crime because they didn’t think he should be President”. IF the part about the FBI and their alleged motivation is true, all I can say is that they’re objectively, factually, and with no room for debate, correct about that assessment. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3426 "2018-03-20T10:28:42Z")
> [@j666](#): > > No, not really. Trump cannot really discredit anyone. No one believes Trump. **Some people just don’t care that he lies**. Yes, but also, some people disbelieve those investigating Trump almost as much as they disbelieve Trump himself. As Garry Kasparov has said before, people don’t know who the good guys are, or which version of events is accurate. Ultimately, there is a majority of people who either believe the investigation is absolutely politically motivated, or that it might be. The truth can never be totally known, and we can never be sure of what the truth is. Over time, the truth of facts becomes replaced by the truth of whatever people perceive it to be. Over time, that evolves into the truth based on whatever those in power say is the truth. We’re not at the end stage of this disease, but it’s progressing much more rapidly than I ever could have imagined in my lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3427 "2018-03-20T10:40:28Z")
So now Senate Republicans want to investigate the FBI. > **[4 GOP Senators Call for Second Special Counsel to Investigate FBI](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/03/gop-senators-call-for-new-special-counsel-to-investigate-fbi.html)** > > Republicans still suspect the FBI misused the Steele dossier, despite the dearth of evidence for that charge in Devin Nunes’s infamous memo. That’s the Republican strategy: Investigate the investigation. This is why a laughed when Sen. Lindsay Graham remarked that firing Mueller would be the end of the presidency. He knows damn well Republicans won’t do anything except form a circle around their besieged president, and that’s because they’re on the payroll of the Mercers, the Kochs, the Uihleins, and Russian oligarchs who funnel money into conservative causes. Our country has been sold out, which is what a lot of people bullish on the Mueller investigation don’t seem to understand. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3428 "2018-03-20T16:34:31Z")
Oh, yeah, this will help a lot. “Trump adds conspiracy theorist to legal team” > **[Trump shakes up team of lawyers as legal threats mount](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-shakes-up-team-of-lawyers-as-legal-threats-mount/2018/03/19/fad71bb0-2ba1-11e8-b0b0-f706877db618_story.html)** > > The president hires Joe diGenova, a TV pundit and combative former prosecutor, to join an already fractious group. > [@](#): > > President Trump shook up his legal team Monday by hiring a combative former prosecutor who has publicly argued that Trump is the target of an elaborate FBI conspiracy — marking another confrontational move by the president against the rapidly mounting legal threats facing him and his administration. > > Joe diGenova, a TV pundit and former U.S. attorney who was a longtime antagonist of Bill and Hillary Clinton, is the latest addition to the sprawling array of lawyers assembled to represent Trump on two main fronts: in the probe of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election and in the case of an adult film star who claims an adulterous affair. > … ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3429 "2018-03-20T17:12:31Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Oh, yeah, this will help a lot. > > “Trump adds conspiracy theorist to legal team” > [http://wapo.st/2IE4qrI](http://wapo.st/2IE4qrI) Well, he did say this in 1997: > [@](#): > > Joseph diGenova, the newest member of President Donald Trump’s legal team for the Russia investigation, wrote in a 1997 op-ed that the nation “could conceivably benefit from the indictment of a president” because “it would teach the valuable civics lesson that no one is above the law.” > **[President Trump's new lawyer once argued America could 'benefit from the...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/19/new-trump-lawyer-wrote-us-could-benefit-from-indictment-of-a-president.html)** > > Joseph diGenova was talking about then-President Bill Clinton, but his views could put him at odds with several of his colleagues on Trump's legal team. I’m sure he still holds that opinion… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3430 "2018-03-20T17:56:54Z")
Meanwhile Paul Ryan assures us he knows Trump won’t fire Mueller. Hahahahahahahaha > **[Paul Ryan says he received 'assurances' that firing Mueller 'not even under...](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/politics/paul-ryan-assurances-mueller-not-fired/index.html)** > > House Speaker Paul Ryan said Tuesday he received "assurances" that President Donald Trump is not considering firing special counsel Robert Mueller. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3431 "2018-03-20T17:59:50Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Well, he did say this in 1997:[President Trump's new lawyer once argued America could 'benefit from the indictment of a president'](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/19/new-trump-lawyer-wrote-us-could-benefit-from-indictment-of-a-president.html) > > I’m sure he still holds that opinion… He does - for various values of Obama and CLinton - but not of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3432 "2018-03-20T18:08:20Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Oh, yeah, this will help a lot. > > “Trump adds conspiracy theorist to legal team” > [http://wapo.st/2IE4qrI](http://wapo.st/2IE4qrI) I’m starting to think that his entire interview process consists of one question: “,Do you hate Hillary?” ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3433 "2018-03-20T18:38:30Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Mueller’s “favorable and credibility” ratings have remained far above Trump’s throughout this debacle, Mueller 2020 ! ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3434 "2018-03-20T18:41:03Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Oh, yeah, this will help a lot. > > “Trump adds conspiracy theorist to legal team” > [http://wapo.st/2IE4qrI](http://wapo.st/2IE4qrI) The funniest part of this whole thing was Trump tweeting that the NY Times saying he was going to add a person to his legal team was fake news. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3435 "2018-03-20T18:51:15Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > Mueller 2020 ! That would lead to some fairly interesting presidential debates. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3436 "2018-03-20T19:10:38Z")
Only during the primaries. Mueller is also a Pubbie. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3437 "2018-03-20T20:03:35Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Meanwhile Paul Ryan assures us he knows Trump won’t fire Mueller. Hahahahahahahaha And of course he won’t. If Rod Rosenstein won’t do it, he’ll fire Rosenstein, and some hand picked sycophant will do it. And Paul Ryan will say with a straight face that that’s what he meant. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3438 "2018-03-20T20:15:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > And of course he won’t. If Rod Rosenstein won’t do it, he’ll fire Rosenstein, and some hand picked sycophant will do it. > > And Paul Ryan will say with a straight face that that’s what he meant. Didn’t Andrea Mitchell say recently that Trump never fires anyone face to face. I guess he can twee-fire Mueller. And Mueller can just ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3439 "2018-03-21T00:58:26Z")
So, what happens if the GOP has been so passive because they are all just as wrapped up in this as Trump? Cambridge Analytica, now in the hot seat, [was involved with numerous GOP Congressmen](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/politics/cambridge-analytica-republican-ties/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3440 "2018-03-21T02:03:46Z")
“Yes, This Is Going to Be Worse Than Watergate” [https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBKspm3?m=en-us](https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBKspm3?m=en-us) Why? > [@](#): > > …Because in 1973, we had a Republican Party with some independent-minded lawmakers in it. Here is The New York Times article covering the Saturday Night Massacre in October 1973. The third paragraph states: “Senior members of both parties in the House of Representatives were reported to be seriously discussing impeachment of the President because of his refusal to obey an order by the United States Court of Appeals that he turn over to the courts tape recordings of conversations about the Watergate case, and because of Mr. Nixon’s dismissal of Mr. [Archibald] Cox.” > > Take note: seriously discussing impeachment. > > If Trump fires Mueller, could Haberman and her White House-based Times colleagues write that same sentence today? I very much doubt it. > … ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3441 "2018-03-21T16:18:24Z")
Perhaps this belongs in the _Clusterfuck_ thread, but I’m posting it here in the _Trump is a Criminal_ thread. [Two months ago Rachel Maddow reviewed some of the ties between Trump and the criminal oligarchs of Kazakhstan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YexnrlGhNEY) and commented on the fact that the dictator of Kazakhstan, in control of possible documents incriminating Trump, was invited to the White House. The clip is 20 minutes long, but kept me on the edge of my chair! No smoking gun here, but the stories certainly confirm that Trump is in cahoots with the criminals running ex-Soviet countries. _This is all an old story_, but search shows that it was barely mentioned at SDMB, if at all. (A tidbit near the end of the clip amused me. Wendi Deng Murdoch — whom I did an SDMB thread on once saying she seemed like a James Bond movie villain — is, after all, supposedly a Chinese spy!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=171) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=173)