# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 183
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3642 "2018-04-06T20:17:59Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Well, this would seem to pave the way for a Lewandowski return to the official fold of the administration. Trump admires loud assholes. Well, Tangerine Tyrant IS going to be looking for a new Chief of Staff soon, apparently… ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3643 "2018-04-06T22:52:47Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > “The language they used in the committee was appalling,” Lewandowski said. “I’ve never heard such language used before.” Let me guess–some of the words actually had more than two syllables. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3644 "2018-04-09T20:10:34Z")
[FBI raids the office of Trump attorney Michael Cohen.](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/us/politics/fbi-raids-office-of-trumps-longtime-lawyer-michael-cohen.amp.html#ampshare=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/us/politics/fbi-raids-office-of-trumps-longtime-lawyer-michael-cohen.html) ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3645 "2018-04-09T20:26:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > [FBI raids the office of Trump attorney Michael Cohen.](https://www.google.com/url?q=https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/us/politics/fbi-raids-office-of-trumps-longtime-lawyer-michael-cohen.amp.html#ampshare=https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/us/politics/fbi-raids-office-of-trumps-longtime-lawyer-michael-cohen.html) Hopefully a NYS crime, not a part of Mueller’s investigation. > [@](#): > > The search does not appear to be directly related to Mr. Mueller’s investigation, but likely resulted from information he had uncovered and gave to prosecutors in New York. Without a pardon possibility, seeing Cohen flip could be amazing… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3646 "2018-04-09T20:29:10Z")
Trump: You’ll have to ask Michael Cohen. Michael Cohen is my attorney. You’ll have to ask Michael. FBI: OK! ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3647 "2018-04-09T20:33:03Z")
I posted this over in the Clusterfuck thread, but it probably goes here better… Maybe (almost certainly) I’m making too much of this because it fuels my partisan blood lust, but this sounds like Mueller has so much to work with, that he can toss evidence over the wall to another investigative agency, even when that evidence concerns one of Trump’s closest advisers, and the evidence is strong enough to spark a raid on the adviser’s office. Mueller is so busy with all the other crimes he’s dealing with, that _potential federal crimes committed by the president’s personal attorney_ are relatively small potatoes. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3648 "2018-04-09T20:36:39Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I posted this over in the Clusterfuck thread, but it probably goes here better… > > Maybe (almost certainly) I’m making too much of this because it fuels my partisan blood lust, but this sounds like Mueller has so much to work with, that he can toss evidence over the wall to another investigative agency, even when that evidence concerns one of Trump’s closest advisers, and the evidence is strong enough to spark a raid on the adviser’s office. Mueller is so busy with all the other crimes he’s dealing with, that _potential federal crimes committed by the president’s personal attorney_ are relatively small potatoes. Or perhaps he’s putting more effort into investigating non-federal crimes, because Trump can’t pardon those. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3649 "2018-04-09T20:37:07Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Hopefully a NYS crime, not a part of Mueller’s investigation. Would the FBI conduct a raid based on state charges alone? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3650 "2018-04-09T20:39:36Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Would the FBI conduct a raid based on state charges alone? Actually I believe Cohen is accused of violating campaign finance laws, which would be a federal matter. (His payment would be an illegal campaign contribution if it was made to help the Trump campaign.) So I take back my above post. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3651 "2018-04-09T20:42:33Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Would the FBI conduct a raid based on state charges alone? Also, the NYT article says the search warrant was obtained by federal prosecutors. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3652 "2018-04-09T21:23:36Z")
They raided his home, office and hotel. Which begs the question of why a guy who lives and works in New York City also needs a hotel room in New York City. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3653 "2018-04-09T21:26:16Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Which begs the question … \*Raises \*the question, I think you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3654 "2018-04-09T21:28:08Z")
Interesting write-up from Popehat: “[This is a big deal. It’s very early on, but here’s some things we can already tell](https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/09/the-search-of-trump-lawyer-michael-cohens-office-what-we-can-infer-immediately/).” [INDENT]Such a search requires high-level approval. The USAM requires such a search warrant to be approved by the U.S. Attorney — the head of the office, a Presidential appointee — and requires “consultation” with the Criminal Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. [/INDENT] ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3655 "2018-04-09T22:06:36Z")
> “Briefly reached a WH official. Official said the WH doesn’t have a strategy for the Comey book. Paused. Then said that should answer my question of what’s the strategy for dealing with Cohen news.” ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3656 "2018-04-09T22:08:09Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Also, the NYT article says the search warrant was obtained by federal prosecutors. Yeah, I misread “prosecutors in New York” as “New York prosecutors”. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3657 "2018-04-09T22:19:44Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/costareports/status/983461712279097345?s=19) > > “Briefly reached a WH official. Official said the WH doesn’t have a strategy for the Comey book. Paused. Then said that should answer my question of what’s the strategy for dealing with Cohen news.” Of course what many of us fear is that the strategy for both is ‘flying missiles.’ As for what the raid is about: some are pointing out that attorney-client privilege would be expected to protect Cohen against FBI raids … except in the case of the “crime-fraud exception to the privilege” being invoked. So this would imply that the raid was in support of charges of criminal fraud (or something closely related). > [@](#): > > The crime-fraud exception applies if: > > [ul] > [li]the client was in the process of committing or intended to commit a crime or fraudulent act, and[/li][li]the client communicated with the lawyer with intent to further the crime or fraud, or to cover it up.[/li][/ul] > **[The Crime-Fraud Exception to the Attorney-Client Privilege](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-crime-fraud-exception-the-attorney-client-privilege.html)** > > Not all attorney-client communications are privileged. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3658 "2018-04-09T22:31:36Z")
Trump is on TV as we speak, ranting about the Cohen raid. I think Mueller really hit a nerve. He just mentioned the Sessions recusal again, for crissake. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3659 "2018-04-09T22:40:41Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > \*Raises \*the question, I think you mean. Just to be difficult … 😉 “_That point has already come and gone, I think_ … at a certain point, the way that people _actually_ use “begs the question” is going to become the _right way_ to use “begs the question,” and everyone is just gonna have to shut up and deal.” … Although beg the question is ambiguous in isolation, when it is used in a sentence, the intended use is pretty much always made clear by the context. When begs the question is used in in the sense of ‘raises the question’, it’s always followed by a phrase specifying the question that is being begged/raised: begs the question of whether…, begs the question, why does… and so on. But when begs the question is used in the traditional sense of ‘assumes the conclusion’, it’s always begs the question full stop (or colon or semicolon). [http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=36987](http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=36987) The first paragraph is a tweet, the second an extract from a commentary on it in the linguistics blog _Language Log_. The point of both being that the “raise the question” usage, unambiguously indicated by a key following phrase (in this case, “begs the question _of why_ …”) can no longer be regarded as “wrong” without risk of being hopelessly pedantic, and that indeed using “begs the question” the “right” way creates the risk of being misunderstood. That is all. Carry on. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3660 "2018-04-09T22:42:54Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Trump is on TV as we speak, ranting about the Cohen raid. I think Mueller really hit a nerve. > > He just mentioned the Sessions recusal again, for crissake. Speculation is that, since everything is just a TV game show to Trump, firing of Rosenstein and/or Mueller may be next. Let the fireworks begin. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3661 "2018-04-09T22:52:17Z")
I wonder what Faux news has to say about this raid. Anyone care to look at that? I really don’t want to, and if it comes down to it I’m just not that curious. But I am, you know, a _little_ curious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=182) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=184)