# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 185
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3682 "2018-04-10T01:04:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Didn’t Bannon say that 100 women had been paid off? > > Also Cohen threatens people, so who knows what threats he has made for Trump’s benefits. > > Also supposedly there were 130k in suspicious payments made to the Trump org around the same time Cohen used 130k in his own money to pay off Daniels. Also also - Cohen is currently the Deputy Finance Chair for the RNC. It’s possible that his financial shenanigans extend well beyond Trump & Daniels. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3683 "2018-04-10T01:15:34Z")
What I’m seeing here is some delicious irony: What probably really happened is that Trump, through his attorney, paid off Stormy Daniels. Although shady, there probably wasn’t actually anything illegal here, aside from technically the adultery, which nobody actually cares about. If Trump had just left it at that, then the worst that could happen to him is that the public finds out that he likes to be spanked. But Trump can’t stand the possibility of the public finding that out, so he does what he always does: He lies. He says that there was no affair, and that he never paid Daniels, and that she’s not allowed to say otherwise. But if he never paid Daniels, then Cohen’s payment was an illegal campaign contribution. And Trump’s statement is thus strong evidence that his lawyer committed a crime. Strong enough evidence, in fact, that the FBI can get a search warrant for Cohen’s home and office. And in the course of that search, the FBI will probably find admissible evidence of all sorts of other crimes that Cohen and Trump really did commit. Evidence that would never have come to light, if it weren’t for Trump’s reflexive lying. And meanwhile, we still find out that he likes being spanked, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3684 "2018-04-10T01:21:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And in the course of that search, the FBI will probably find admissible evidence of all sorts of other crimes that Cohen and Trump really did commit. Evidence that would never have come to light, if it weren’t for Trump’s reflexive lying. **And meanwhile, we still find out that he likes being spanked, anyway.** I think I see a way to pay down the national debt. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3685 "2018-04-10T01:45:17Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/costareports/status/983461712279097345?s=19) > > “Briefly reached a WH official. Official said the WH doesn’t have a strategy for the Comey book. Paused. Then said that should answer my question of what’s the strategy for dealing with Cohen news.” Oh, yeah, I forgot about the Comey book. It comes out next Wednesday. That’ll be good fun. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3686 "2018-04-10T01:51:20Z")
An unnamed employee of Manafort’s is cooperating with the Mueller investigation and led them to a storage unit full of documents which Manafort is frantically trying to suppress. > **[A Second Paul Manafort Associate Has Turned on Him](https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-second-paul-manafort-associate-has-turned-on-him?source=TDB&via=FB_Page)** > > The one-time Team Trump honcho was already in hot water. And that was before an ex-employee led an FBI agent to a storage locker filled with Manafort’s financial papers. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3687 "2018-04-10T02:15:00Z")
The lawyer types on Twitter, including Preet Bharara, are speculating that this was referred to SDNY in order to have a separate clean team sort through all of the evidence and remove privileged stuff and provide only non privileged stuff to Mueller. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3688 "2018-04-10T02:18:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But if he never paid Daniels, then Cohen’s payment was an illegal campaign contribution. I’ve seen this statement before, but I don’t quite follow the reasoning: how is money going from Cohen to Daniels equivalent to money going to the Trump campaign? And what’s illegal about it? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3689 "2018-04-10T02:24:26Z")
If he spent money with the intention of influencing the election, that’s a campaign contribution. Given the amount of money involved, failure to report it as such would be a major felony. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3690 "2018-04-10T02:26:07Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’ve seen this statement before, but I don’t quite follow the reasoning: how is money going from Cohen to Daniels equivalent to money going to the Trump campaign? And what’s illegal about it? The NDA was done a few days before the election so she couldn’t drop a bombshell right before the vote. That benefits the campaign. Cohen making the payment instead of the campaign is considered a contribution under election law. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3691 "2018-04-10T02:26:27Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I posted this over in the Clusterfuck thread, but it probably goes here better… > > Maybe (almost certainly) I’m making too much of this because it fuels my partisan blood lust, but this sounds like Mueller has so much to work with, that he can toss evidence over the wall to another investigative agency, even when that evidence concerns one of Trump’s closest advisers, and the evidence is strong enough to spark a raid on the adviser’s office. Mueller is so busy with all the other crimes he’s dealing with, that _potential federal crimes committed by the president’s personal attorney_ are relatively small potatoes. Well, as usual, I’ve entirely misread the situation. Mueller probably referred it out because that was the proper procedure. > [@](#): > > Former prosecutors also said that move to hand off the inquiry to federal prosecutors in New York once Mueller flagged the information shows that the special counsel is playing it by the book, even as President Trump and his allies suggest that he’s on a witch hunt. > > “That’s pretty standard,” said Patrick Cotter, a former federal prosecutor who investigated organized crime for the U.S. Attorney’s Office of the Eastern District of New York. “It would be news if [Mueller] didn’t [refer it out].” [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/michael-cohen-fbi-raid-experts-react](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/michael-cohen-fbi-raid-experts-react) Also, what \*\*Fiveyearlurker \*\* says. This is, apparently, a Big Fucking Deal. Of course, the last we heard from Mueller, Trump himself is not a target of the investigation. So he’s in the clear. HAHAHAHAAA! ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3692 "2018-04-10T02:48:16Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’ve seen this statement before, but I don’t quite follow the reasoning: how is money going from Cohen to Daniels equivalent to money going to the Trump campaign? And what’s illegal about it? It’s the same theory that was used in the John Edwards case. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3693 "2018-04-10T03:22:13Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I wonder what Faux news has to say about this raid. Anyone care to look at that? I really don’t want to, and if it comes down to it I’m just not that curious. But I am, you know, a _little_ curious. I want to know my enemy so I check out their “real honest opinion” shows in 1-2 minute doses whenever something big happens. Laura Ingram had some reasonable guy on, talking about how everything looks above-board and legal and she was whining “but what if it’s _not_ - what can the president doooooooooo!!!”. I checked Hannity but he was talking to Sebastian Gorka and they seemed pretty worked up so I moved on. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3694 "2018-04-10T03:41:26Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > An unnamed employee of Manafort’s is cooperating with the Mueller investigation and led them to a storage unit full of documents which Manafort is frantically trying to suppress. > [A Second Paul Manafort Associate Has Turned on Him](https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-second-paul-manafort-associate-has-turned-on-him?source=TDB&via=FB_Page) Ah, Manafort. He is screwed in the worst way. If he tries to play fuck-around he goes to prison. If he cooperates, he still goes to prison. If they just turn him loose, Putin’s goons kill him because he knows too much and can’t be trusted. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving guy. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3695 "2018-04-10T03:41:43Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > [Picture from CNN](https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/180409184118-trump-military-briefing-syria-0409-large-tease.jpg) of Trump making that pronouncement during the Syria briefing. The pic is notable because of the background – this must be the only known picture of The Fearsome Mustache apparently smiling. It’s not clear if the The Fearsome Mustache is amused, bemused, or just flabbergasted by his boss. Probably ecstatic that his boss will be happy to okay bombing the shit out of some brown people. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3696 "2018-04-10T03:57:10Z")
I rise to quibble. I think John of House Bolton would much prefer to see our prospective enemies totally cave in the face of growls and veiled threats. Because that would prove that it works. Which will be fine for him and not _too_ bad for everyone else, he can beam with vindication every time it does work! Until the day comes when it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3697 "2018-04-10T12:27:37Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I wonder if Trump saying “I didnt know about any payment” a few days ago triggered this in some way, by contradicting something or something. While it may have helped ice the cake, I don’t think the federal prosecutors move THAT fast. My guess is that they’ve been looking into this since the Stormy Daniels stuff came out. > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > An unnamed employee of Manafort’s is cooperating with the Mueller investigation and led them to a storage unit full of documents which Manafort is frantically trying to suppress. > [A Second Paul Manafort Associate Has Turned on Him](https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-second-paul-manafort-associate-has-turned-on-him?source=TDB&via=FB_Page) This is kind of funny. Apparently the Manafort Gates employee was really low level and had absolutely no authority to allow access into the unit. But this low level employee was the person whose name was on the frigging lease of the storage unit — probably an attempt to conceal the existence of the unit and its contents. Boy, these are really grasping at straws > [@E-DUB](#): > > It’s the same theory that was used in the John Edwards case. The Edwards case was sort of interesting. It’s been a long to me since I read the book written on the Edwards scandal but the wealthy donor did not give him money as a campaign contribution. In fact, after seeing Edwards get a lot of flack for getting expensive haircuts, she gave him a bunch of money that was specifically a personal gift and explicitly not a campaign contribution. Of course, the question of whether the donor could legallly make this distinction was still open and investigated. > [@SteveG1](#): > > Ah, Manafort. He is screwed in the worst way. If he tries to play fuck-around he goes to prison. If he cooperates, he still goes to prison. If they just turn him loose, Putin’s goons kill him because he knows too much and can’t be trusted. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving guy. Sometimes in reading these threads, I get the impression that some people think the feds went after Manafort in an attempt to put pressure on him and his cohort with regards to Trump. I don’t agree, because the international corruption Manafort was engaged in is worse, by several orders of magnitude, than anything the Trump campaign is accused of. I think there are probably factions within law enforcement that viewed the Trump investigation as a way to get to Manafort, rather than the reverse. But I’m sure this whole investigation is somewhat overwhelming even for experienced investigators. Because most investigations can be likened to looking for a needle in a haystack. This one is like looking for hay in a haystack. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3698 "2018-04-10T12:48:36Z")
[Life imitates farce](https://www.pedestrian.tv/entertainment/anchorman-adam-mckay-tucker-carlson-donald-trump/) as [Tucker Carlson devotes a full segment to sex-crazed killer pandas](https://www.politicususa.com/2018/04/09/fox-news-talks-about-sex-crazed-killer-pandas-while-ignoring-michael-cohen-raid.html) in order to avoid covering the Cohen raid. > [@Adam McKay](#): > > Amazing. We made this joke in _Anchorman_ about fluff news and he’s actually doing it (to cover for Trump) ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3699 "2018-04-10T13:02:18Z")
I thought trump’s name wasn’t actually in the nda, but rather a pseudonym. In that case, wouldn’t she just have to avoid talking about the fictitious guy? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3700 "2018-04-10T13:15:04Z")
Kelly Anne Conway’s husband continues to [troll Trump](https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/983672662517075968). Trump tweeted about the death of attorney client privilege. Conway posted the laws pertaining to when such privilege can be breached. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3701 "2018-04-10T13:29:46Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I thought trump’s name wasn’t actually in the nda, but rather a pseudonym. In that case, wouldn’t she just have to avoid talking about the fictitious guy? “David Dennison” didn’t sign the NDA either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=184) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=186)