# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 186
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3702 "2018-04-10T13:52:58Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > I want to know my enemy so I check out their “real honest opinion” shows in 1-2 minute doses whenever something big happens. Laura Ingram had some reasonable guy on, talking about how everything looks above-board and legal and she was whining “but what if it’s _not_ - what can the president doooooooooo!!!”. > > I checked Hannity but he was talking to Sebastian Gorka and they seemed pretty worked up so I moved on. 😃 [slight hijack]On the one hand, for god’s sake we’re all Americans, there’s only one objective truth, and it shouldn’t matter which news channel one watches. On the other hand: in this reality, it does matter; and we’ve sunk so low that watching Fox News feels like intercepting the enemy’s battle plans. Jeezuz Fucking Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3703 "2018-04-10T13:59:16Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > As for what the raid is about: some are pointing out that attorney-client privilege would be expected to protect Cohen against FBI raids … except in the case of the “crime-fraud exception to the privilege” being invoked. > > So this would imply that the raid was in support of charges of criminal fraud (or something closely related). > > [When Does the Attorney-Client Privilege Not Apply? | Nolo](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-crime-fraud-exception-the-attorney-client-privilege.html) My impression is that although Cohen is technically Trump’s lawyer, much of what he does is not actual legal work, but all sorts of shady fixit/bagman type stuff. I don’t know if that’s protected by any sort of privilege just because the guy is nominally hired as a lawyer. But bottom line, I would tend to agree that this is pretty bad for Trump. It seems unlikely that Cohen was raided for things unconnected with Trump. (Unlike Manafort/Gates, who had Russia connections unrelated to Trump, Cohen’s connection here seems to be entirely Trump-related.) So if Mueller or another prosecutor is going to go after Cohen in connection with this investigation, it’s likely it’s for something he was doing on behalf of Trump personally, and it’s hard for Trump to escape involvement with that. Over the course of Cohen’s involvement with Trump there could have been any number of other illegal things he’s done on his behalf. And once it’s not Mueller himself but regular ordinary prosecutors going through all his files, I would think they’re not constrained by any limitations at all. Could get very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3704 "2018-04-10T14:03:07Z")
Trump’s playing 4D chess. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3705 "2018-04-10T14:03:53Z")
Speaking of Kelly Anne, anyone else sick of this nothingburger? This nothingburger with a side of nothingfries and super-sized nothingcoke? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3706 "2018-04-10T14:17:36Z")
> [@OwnRules](#): > > Trump’s playing 4D chess. With a Monopoly shoe, a button, a seven of spades, a ping-pong ball and three cribbage pegs. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3707 "2018-04-10T14:22:40Z")
> [@OwnRules](#): > > Trump’s playing 4D chess. 4D Tic-Tac-Toe. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3708 "2018-04-10T14:30:03Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > With a Monopoly shoe, a button, a seven of spades, a ping-pong ball and three cribbage pegs. you;re only allowed 2 cribbage pegs - he cheats at this too. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3709 "2018-04-10T14:32:39Z")
MAGA: My Attorney Got Arrested ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3710 "2018-04-10T14:40:49Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Speaking of Kelly Anne, anyone else sick of this nothingburger? This nothingburger with a side of nothingfries and super-sized nothingcoke? She was supposedly put in charge of the opioid crisis. How’s that going? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3711 "2018-04-10T14:42:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And in the course of that search, the FBI will probably find admissible evidence of all sorts of other crimes that Cohen and Trump really did commit. Evidence that would never have come to light, if it weren’t for Trump’s reflexive lying. And meanwhile, we still find out that he likes being spanked, anyway. IANAL but don’t the rules of search warrants require them to be very specific about what is being searched for and what is not on the list cannot be introduced as evidence in any proceeding? IOW, you have reason to believe a convicted felon owns a pistol and keeps it in his house. You get a warrant to search for the pistol and find it, so it becomes exhibit A at his new trial. You also are surprised to find a meth lab in the back bedroom. Now, the equipment might get confiscated, since it is illegal for _anyone_ to possess it, but it cannot be offered as evidence in a meth-making trial. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3712 "2018-04-10T14:49:02Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > She was supposedly put in charge of the opioid crisis. How’s that going? About as well as Jared Kushner bringing peace to the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3713 "2018-04-10T14:53:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > About as well as Jared Kushner bringing peace to the Middle East. Not sure what you are talking about: Things are going swimmingly over there. Syria is a virtual lovefest. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3714 "2018-04-10T15:03:39Z")
As I understand it, they’re only allowed to look in places where the thing they’re looking for could be found, but that anything they find in those places is valid evidence. Thus, for instance, if they’re looking for a rifle, they’re not allowed to look inside a sugar bowl, because a rifle couldn’t be in a sugar bowl. But a rifle could be in a closet, so they’re allowed to look in the closet, and if they find a meth lab in there that they weren’t looking for, that’s valid evidence. The police, meanwhile, know these rules, and so they usually try to get a search warrant to include things like “related documents” and “cash”, because those could be almost anywhere. But IANAL either. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3715 "2018-04-10T15:04:38Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > IANAL but don’t the rules of search warrants require them to be very specific about what is being searched for and what is not on the list cannot be introduced as evidence in any proceeding? > > IOW, you have reason to believe a convicted felon owns a pistol and keeps it in his house. You get a warrant to search for the pistol and find it, so it becomes exhibit A at his new trial. You also are surprised to find a meth lab in the back bedroom. Now, the equipment might get confiscated, since it is illegal for _anyone_ to possess it, but it cannot be offered as evidence in a meth-making trial. Specificity is required in a search warrant (one example is [here](https://www.justice.gov/archive/amerithrax/docs/08-431-m-01.pdf)), but if law enforcement seeks and is granted permission from a judge or magistrate for the authority to search for items that are the size of a handgun inside of a home, then that would give law enforcement the authority to look virtually anywhere within the home where such a handgun could be placed or hidden. Police wouldn’t have to ignore evidence that another crime was or is being committed simply because the search warrant didn’t include a request to search for materials related to the crime that was discovered, such as a meth lab inside the home being searched. But, if the search warrant specifically says that law enforcement is only looking for a stolen painting that is 5 feet by 5 feet large, then police would not be permitted to start searching dresser drawers and any other compartments smaller than the item they are looking for, just to see if the particular location has evidence of any other crimes. That’s why, in the linked example of a search warrant and affidavit, both the items listed in the magistrate-approved search warrant and the attachment to the affidavit (offered by law enforcement to provide legal justification for the search warrant), law enforcement tries to be as broad as possible within the overall requirement to be specific as to what items or types of items they are looking for. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3716 "2018-04-10T15:05:57Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > About as well as Jared Kushner bringing peace to the Middle East. To be fair, Jared’s going to reinvent government first. Just as soon as he’s done hitting up foreign visitors to the White House for loans. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3717 "2018-04-10T15:10:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > She was supposedly put in charge of the opioid crisis. How’s that going? It’s still a crisis, so she’s doing fine. You didn’t think her portfolio was solving it did you? I mean, she has absolutely no background in that area, so that would be crazy talk. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3718 "2018-04-10T15:15:55Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Speaking of Kelly Anne, anyone else sick of this nothingburger? This nothingburger with a side of nothingfries and super-sized nothingcoke? Her hubby’s schooling Spanky on tweeter: [https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/983672662517075968](https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/983672662517075968) If she wasn’t already sleeping in her crypt he’d be relegated to the couch. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3719 "2018-04-10T15:16:43Z")
Trump has cancelled his trip to South America for the Summit of the Americas (Pence is going instead); ostensibly so he can monitor the situation in Syria. Now, I can certainly believe that he’d welcome any opportunity to skip a trip to the land of Rapists and Drug Dealers Who Don’t Even Speak English. But one wonders if he’s really staying home to monitor Saturday Night Massacre 2.0. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3720 "2018-04-10T15:32:52Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > IANAL but don’t the rules of search warrants require them to be very specific about what is being searched for and what is not on the list cannot be introduced as evidence in any proceeding? > > IOW, you have reason to believe a convicted felon owns a pistol and keeps it in his house. You get a warrant to search for the pistol and find it, so it becomes exhibit A at his new trial. You also are surprised to find a meth lab in the back bedroom. Now, the equipment might get confiscated, since it is illegal for _anyone_ to possess it, but it cannot be offered as evidence in a meth-making trial. In this case, I imagine all the incriminating evidence that they’re looking for is in the form of bank records, emails, and the like. Once they get to look through all of these for one crime then they can presumably prosecute for all sorts of other crimes that they uncover along the way. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3721 "2018-04-10T15:42:00Z")
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