# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 189
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3762 "2018-04-10T21:00:14Z")
Ok then, Mueller’s toast. Everybody can return their “It’s Mueller Time” t-shirts. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3763 "2018-04-10T21:02:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It will be on display at the Donald Trump Presidential Library. OK, I’ve been trying to come up with some kind of pun based on the first syllable of library, but really can’t get anything. Anyone ? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3764 "2018-04-10T21:04:10Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > OK, I’ve been trying to come up with some kind of pun based on the first syllable of library, but really can’t get anything. > > Anyone ? Liebrary. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3765 "2018-04-10T21:07:32Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Ignorance follows: > > Ok, so even if Trump fires Mueller, and congressional Republicans do nothing, wouldn’t the investigation just fall to the next in command? He can’t fire Mueller directly - the President actually does not have authority over the Justice Department other than nominating and firing its top officers. He can only order Rosenstein to fire Mueller and order the investigation stopped, fire him when he refuses, and go down the org chart until he finds someone who \*will \*, just like Nixon went down the list until he got to Bork. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3766 "2018-04-10T21:10:39Z")
That’s reassuring, because I believe Rosenstein authorized the Cohen raid. Ok, I won’t throw in the towel yet! ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3767 "2018-04-10T21:28:21Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Actually I believe Cohen is accused of violating campaign finance laws, which would be a federal matter. (His payment would be an illegal campaign contribution if it was made to help the Trump campaign.) > > So I take back my above post. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > MAGA: My Attorney Got Arrested This.is.beautiful! I’d like to pre-order this ballcap, please. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3768 "2018-04-10T21:47:42Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > What I’m trying to understand is: Why would she be enjoined from talking about trump if he isn’t even named in the nda? There is another document that maps the fictitious names in that agreement to actual people’s names. That other document has not been made public. Trump has said that he’s not DD, and his flimsy defense against campaign finance abuse rests on that. But if he pursues that angle, then there’s nothing preventing Stormy from talking publicly about the sordid affair, since it would have to be DD who files suit to stop her, and that person would no longer exist. She has him in quite the corner. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3769 "2018-04-10T22:13:07Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Ignorance follows: > > Ok, so even if Trump fires Mueller, and congressional Republicans do nothing, wouldn’t the investigation just fall to the next in command? Or otherwise be taken up by someone else? Is it really that fragile that if Mueller is removed from the equation the investigation just stops? I mean, if that’s true he’s bound to fire Mueller. As I’ve mentioned before a time or two, Mueller has safeguarded his investigation. He understood from Day One that being fired was an eventual potential. Even if Trump figures out a way to fire Mueller or clip his wings by installing, say, Scott Pruitt in place of Sessions to fire Rosenstein, Mueller’s investigations will continue. He has placed part of the investigation in the control of the Southern District of New York. He has placed another part of the investigation in the control of career FBI agents who have the authority within their own agency to continue to pursue their investigations even if the office of the Special Counsel is disbanded. He has placed other parts of the investigation in the control of various other state/D.C. jurisdictions. Mueller knows what he is doing. Trump does not. It’s also worth considering that Republicans might actually be pushed by public outrage to simply reinstall Mueller as an independent counsel with even more power than he already had. If Republicans fail to act, it will continue to change the dynamic considerably in advance of the mid-terms. Should Democrats take both the House and the Senate, it will be a brand new game. I believe the most probable scenario is that Trump fires Sessions, installs Pruitt or some other slightly-less-tainted stooge (Rick Perry?) as acting AG to fire Rosenstein and severely limit Mueller’s investigation. I don’t think he will fire Mueller, just try to ratchet down the areas where Mueller is allowed to investigate. But it’s too late. The investigations have already been conducted or are safely in the hands of other jurisdictions. I do think that Trump is correct on one point: This is Mueller’s doing, even if this Cohen investigation is not now under his own purview, and it is brilliant. Cohen has been in Mueller’s crosshairs for a long time. Remember that Cohen was the point person who helped Trump during the 2016 election to explore building a Trump Tower Moscow, all while Trump was denying he had any business ties to Russia. Cohen actually attempted to contact Putin directly to enlist his aid in getting the project built. Cohen was also up to his neck in negotiations with pro-Putin Ukrainians and worked with Felix Sater to get relief from US sanctions against Russia for their annexation of Crimea. I think it was Trump’s stupidity in talking on the plane last Thursday that provided Mueller with a quick, easy way to get at the records – which they were likely already pursuing. By denying he had any knowledge of the $130,000 Stormy Daniels payment, Trump opened the door wide for an immediate investigation into improper campaign donations by his consigliere. And by turning the investigation over to SDNY, Mueller ensured it will continue even if Rosenstein/Mueller are fired – and maximizes distribution of the work. If, in the course of SDNY investigation of the Cohen financial crimes evidence of additional crimes falling within Mueller’s purview are discovered, such evidence can be passed back to Mueller. And just imagine what a treasure trove of information might be there. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3770 "2018-04-11T00:08:39Z")
One of the things the FBI was looking for in Cohen’s files involves New York Taxi medallions. Apparently not involving Trump. > **[Michael Cohen and the absolutely amazing history of the once-coveted New York...](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/10/politics/michael-cohen-taxi-medallion-donald-trump/index.html)** > > When FBI agents raided the home and office of President Donald Trump's personal lawyer Michael Cohen on Monday, they were after documents related to the hush agreement Cohen cut with porn star Stormy Daniels 11 days before the 2016 presidential... ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3771 "2018-04-11T01:04:07Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Trump is increasingly isolated in the White House and looks to Fox News personalities like Hannity, Pirro, and Dobbs for guidance. Along these lines is [today’s Borowitz Report](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/fox-news-says-it-will-decide-trumps-syria-response-in-next-forty-eight-hours) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3772 "2018-04-11T01:13:06Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Along these lines is [today’s Borowitz Report](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/fox-news-says-it-will-decide-trumps-syria-response-in-next-forty-eight-hours) Linky no worky. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3773 "2018-04-11T01:18:59Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Linky no worky. I fixed it. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3774 "2018-04-11T01:19:34Z")
here’s the header from his link. _NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report)—Fox News Channel announced on Monday that it would decide what Donald J. Trump’s Syria response will be in the next forty-eight hours._ ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3775 "2018-04-11T01:35:35Z")
Something I haven’t seen anyone else point out is that while SH Sanders SAID they were told they had the right to fire Mueller, why are we to believe her? She constantly lies about everything. Just because she said it doesn’t make it true. Also, how do we know that she’s in the loop? Some coked-up lackey who’s never even watched Law & Order, much less gone to law school, could have been like “Nah, Sarah. We cool. It’s all good. We can fire him whenever we want.” Or someone could be just placating Donald just to get him to shut up. “There, there, sir. You can get rid of that bad bully whenever you want. Now just put down your phone.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3776 "2018-04-11T01:48:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Some coked-up lackey who’s never even watched Law & Order, much less gone to law school, could have been like “Nah, Sarah. We cool. It’s all good. We can fire him whenever we want.” Isn’t it the Press Secretary’s job to pass on messages given to her by the President himself? (unless you were referring to some _other_ coked-up lackey, of course) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3777 "2018-04-11T01:58:32Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > Something I haven’t seen anyone else point out is that while SH Sanders SAID they were told they had the right to fire Mueller, why are we to believe her? She constantly lies about everything. Just because she said it doesn’t make it true. Also, how do we know that she’s in the loop? Some coked-up lackey who’s never even watched Law & Order, much less gone to law school, could have been like “Nah, Sarah. We cool. It’s all good. We can fire him whenever we want.” Or someone could be just placating Donald just to get him to shut up. “There, there, sir. You can get rid of that bad bully whenever you want. Now just put down your phone.” Its more that this is what they want their followers to hear - “oh, we could have fired him anytime we wanted, but we wanted it to come to its rightful end so you’d know we were right all along”. The people that ‘hear’ those soundbites have no clue as to whats correct/incorrect in them. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3778 "2018-04-11T04:25:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Isn’t it the Press Secretary’s job to pass on messages given to her by the President himself? > > (unless you were referring to some _other_ coked-up lackey, of course) Considering how very often she says “I haven’t talked to the President about that”, I’m going to say no. Her job is apparently to repeatedly answer “the President has been very clear about that” or “you will need to talk to somebody, anybody else about that”. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3779 "2018-04-11T06:15:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > She claimed that conclusion was based on legal advice they have received. Until it is tested in court, the contrary view is just an opinion too. It’s a murky area. The rules for Special Counsels are laid out in [28 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) 600](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7): [QUOTE=28 CFR 600.7(d)] The Special Counsel may be disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the Attorney General. The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies. The Attorney General shall inform the Special Counsel in writing of the specific reason for his or her removal. [/QUOTE] This would be pretty dispositive in answering the question, except that this is a federal regulation and not a law passed by Congress. That means in this case that an executive branch federal agency created this regulation - the Department of Justice. Since Trump is head of the executive branch, it is not completely settled territory as to whether he himself is bound to obey them when they are not created to implement a specific law passed by Congress. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > I believe the most probable scenario is that Trump fires Sessions, installs Pruitt or some other slightly-less-tainted stooge (Rick Perry?) as acting AG to fire Rosenstein and severely limit Mueller’s investigation. I don’t think he will fire Mueller, just try to ratchet down the areas where Mueller is allowed to investigate. The big complication here, aside from how far Mueller’s investigation and ultimate report is from being completed, is that Sessions still has a lot of strong support from the Senate Republicans whom he was colleagues with not too long ago. Firing Sessions without now or in the near future without some obvious cause that is not a transparent pretense is going to cause a lot of waves and would likely throw a wrench into any confirmation hearings of a successor. Even when a successor was ready and waiting, as has been the case for SecState and CIA director, Senate scheduling has shown that a month or more may go by between nomination and confirmation hearings, let alone a final vote on a successor’s nomination. As the recent developments have shown, a lot can happen in a month. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3780 "2018-04-11T06:32:34Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > One of the things the FBI was looking for in Cohen’s files involves New York Taxi medallions. Apparently not involving Trump. > [https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/10/politics/michael-cohen-taxi-medallion-donald-trump/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/10/politics/michael-cohen-taxi-medallion-donald-trump/index.html) So Cohen might have been doing _ **other** _ slimy things? Say it ain’t so! At risk of being repetitive with something I posted in another thread, Cohen was a graduate of Western Michigan University Cooley Law School. The law website _Above the Law_ rated it the worst law school in America; it’s been sued for fraud and misrepresentation by its students; the vast majority of its students are part-time; around three-quarters of its graduates can’t get a job, and nearly half can’t even pass the bar exam; it’s been sanctioned by the American Bar Association for lax admission standards, and “law professor David Frakt described Cooley’s 2015 entering class as ‘statistically the worst entering class of law students in the history of American legal education at an ABA-Accredited law school’.” And so a shining example of his distinguished boss’s edict that “I have the best people.” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3781 "2018-04-11T11:42:32Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > … > At risk of being repetitive with something I posted in another thread, Cohen was a graduate of Western Michigan University Cooley Law School. The law website _Above the Law_ rated it the worst law school in America; it’s been sued for fraud and misrepresentation by its students; the vast majority of its students are part-time; around three-quarters of its graduates can’t get a job, and nearly half can’t even pass the bar exam; it’s been sanctioned by the American Bar Association for lax admission standards, and “law professor David Frakt described Cooley’s 2015 entering class as ‘statistically the worst entering class of law students in the history of American legal education at an ABA-Accredited law school’.” > > And so a shining example of his distinguished boss’s edict that “I have the best people.” In the hallowed tradition of Trump University. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=188) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=190)