# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 192
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3822 "2018-04-13T09:11:16Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Just heard an interesting point raised by Jill Wine Banks, one of the attorneys that prosecuted Watergate. > … > > And… oh, dear… we’re just now learning there are now Cohen digital recordings. Tapes!! There’s 18.5 MB missing from that thumb drive. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3823 "2018-04-13T10:03:20Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > And… oh, dear… we’re just now learning there are now Cohen digital recordings. Tapes!! If the raid got tapes of conversations not protected by attorney-client privilege because they involve criminal conspiracy between the Mango Moron and his fixer, they’re gonna be shitting enough bricks to build the border wall. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3824 "2018-04-13T12:32:09Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > If the raid got tapes of conversations not protected by attorney-client privilege because they involve criminal conspiracy between the Mango Moron and his fixer, they’re gonna be shitting enough bricks to build the border wall. That’ll certainly cut costs. Trump may be able to build it under budget after all. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3825 "2018-04-13T15:18:38Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > There’s 18.5 MB missing from that thumb drive. 😉 I saw what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3826 "2018-04-13T15:31:40Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > That’ll certainly cut costs. Trump may be able to build it under budget after all. And with the gutting of the EPA, there will not need to be an environmental impact statement (although Mexico isn’t going to like a Superfund site the length of the border). ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3827 "2018-04-13T16:27:30Z")
NBC News reported yesterday that talks between Mueller’s and Trump’s teams on a potential interview with the President broke down in the aftermath of the Cohen raid. Mueller may be preparing to conclude the obstruction investigation without interviewing Trump, raising the possibility that he might be done with that investigation in the next one or two months. As a reminder: > [@NBC News](#): > > Three sources familiar with the investigation said the findings Mueller has collected on Trump’s attempts to obstruct justice include: His intent to fire former FBI Director James Comey; his role in the crafting of a misleading public statement on the nature of a June 2016 Trump Tower meeting between his son and Russians; Trump’s dangling of pardons before grand jury witnesses who might testify against him; and pressuring Attorney General Jeff Sessions not to recuse himself from the Russia investigation. > > Mueller would then likely send a confidential report to Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who is overseeing the Russia investigation. Rosenstein could decide whether to make the report public and send its findings to Congress. From there, Congress would then decide whether to begin impeachment proceedings against the president, said two of the sources. > **[Trump, Mueller teams prepare to move forward without presidential interview](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-mueller-teams-prepare-move-forward-without-presidential-interview-n865421)** > > Monday’s raid on Trump’s personal lawyer upended talks for the president to sit down with investigators. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3828 "2018-04-13T16:36:42Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > NBC News reported yesterday that talks between Mueller’s and Trump’s teams on a potential interview with the President broke down in the aftermath of the Cohen raid. Mueller may be preparing to conclude the obstruction investigation without interviewing Trump, raising the possibility that he might be done with that investigation in the next one or two months. As a reminder: > > [Trump, Mueller teams prepare to move forward without presidential interview](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-mueller-teams-prepare-move-forward-without-presidential-interview-n865421) I wonder how much info Meuller will be sharing with various state investigations - since presiDumptual pardons don’t work against that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3829 "2018-04-13T16:46:20Z")
[Rod Rosenstein tells confidants he is prepared to be fired](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/deputy-ag-rod-rosenstein-tells-confidantes-he-prepared-be-fired-n865596) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3830 "2018-04-13T16:49:22Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > [Rod Rosenstein tells confidants he is prepared to be fired](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/deputy-ag-rod-rosenstein-tells-confidantes-he-prepared-be-fired-n865596) Just one more nail in the OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE coffin? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3831 "2018-04-13T16:53:22Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Just one more nail in the OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE coffin? Rosenstein would have to be an idiot not to be prepared to be fired, whether he is or not. I don’t think this particularly tells us anything new. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3832 "2018-04-13T17:13:53Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Rosenstein would have to be an idiot not to be prepared to be fired, whether he is or not. I don’t think this particularly tells us anything new. No, not new, certainly **a long time in coming** though. I suspect Trump was itching to get rid of him months ago. Possibly immediately after he (Rosenstein) fired Comey for Trump - which Trump expected to end the investigation. You only “survive” in that kind of toxic environment, as long as you are convenient or “useful” to the top guy. Remember, for all the noise he makes about loyalty, he himself has NONE. He saw Rosenstein (and everyone else) as a chump and a fall guy to be used and tossed away. Rosentein has been a “dead man walking” since he first took the job. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3833 "2018-04-13T17:15:26Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > NBC News reported yesterday that talks between Mueller’s and Trump’s teams on a potential interview with the President broke down in the aftermath of the Cohen raid. Mueller may be preparing to conclude the obstruction investigation without interviewing Trump, raising the possibility that he might be done with that investigation in the next one or two months. As a reminder: > > [Trump, Mueller teams prepare to move forward without presidential interview](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-mueller-teams-prepare-move-forward-without-presidential-interview-n865421) The one part I don’t get is how “_crafting of a misleading public statement on the nature of a June 2016 Trump Tower meeting between his son and Russians_” can be construed as obstruction of justice. Misleading public statements are SOP for all politicians including presidents. It’s not any sort of legal proceeding. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3834 "2018-04-13T17:17:31Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > No, not new, certainly **a long time in coming** though. I suspect Trump was itching to get rid of him months ago. Possibly immediately after he (Rosenstein) fired Comey for Trump - which Trump expected to end the investigation. > > You only “survive” in that kind of toxic environment, as long as you are convenient or “useful” to the top guy. > > Remember, for all the noise he makes about loyalty, he himself has NONE. He saw Rosenstein (and everyone else) as a chump and a fall guy to be used and tossed away. > > Rosentein has been a “dead man walking” since he first took the job. What I meant is that I see nothing to indicate that his firing is any more imminent than it was before the article was published, as you appear to think it does. It, as far as I can tell, doesn’t say anything about Rosenstein having increased expectations of being fired, just that he’s prepared and thinks he did the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3835 "2018-04-13T17:19:07Z")
And now the feedback loop starts: [White House telling allies to attack Rosenstein on tv to build case](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/382993-white-house-telling-allies-to-attack-rosenstein-on-tv-to-build-case) [Trump asked source to go on TV to call on him to fire Robert Mueller](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-asked-source-to-go-on-tv-to-call-on-him-to-fire-robert-mueller/) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3836 "2018-04-13T17:21:55Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Remember, for all the noise he makes about loyalty, he himself has NONE. I think from his own perspective, Trump has a lot of loyalty. And in some sense he does (e.g. his attempts to get Flynn off the hook even after he was fired). Trump’s problem is on the other end. He demands a lot from people, and he has no sense at all of what’s an appropriate demand to make from other government officials. Since others in government do, they are not nearly as obsequious as Trump thinks they should be, and as he’s accustomed to from his years as tycoon. So he’s constantly feeling like various people are stabbing him in the back, and once these people stabbed him in the back it’s natural that he wouldn’t be loyal to them. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3837 "2018-04-13T17:39:46Z")
And speaking of Rosenstein, I [still](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=829081) don’t get how it is that he’s not recused from overseeing an investigation which is focused in part on the firing of Jim Comey, which he himself was heavily involved in. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3838 "2018-04-13T17:45:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > And speaking of Rosenstein, I [still](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=829081) don’t get how it is that he’s not recused from overseeing an investigation which is focused in part on the firing of Jim Comey, which he himself was heavily involved in. That’s a fairly good question; maybe it just depends on the definition of “heavily”. I suspect that Rosenstein’s involvement was signing a letter (because he was next in line at Justice) that was drafted by Trump, Sessions and Reince Preibus. Plus, that’s just the Obstruction subset of Mueller’s charter, which I suspect is a tiny portion of the whole. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3839 "2018-04-13T17:54:57Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > That’s a fairly good question; maybe it just depends on the definition of “heavily”. I suspect that Rosenstein’s involvement was signing a letter (because he was next in line at Justice) that was drafted by Trump, Sessions and Reince Preibus. That’s not what I get from all media accounts I’ve read. Rosenstein didn’t write the letter (AFAIK), he wrote a memo justifying dismissal, and while he apparently knew what his conclusion was supposed to be, it was his memo. See e.g. [Dismissal of James Comey - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dismissal_of_James_Comey#The_dismissal) IANAL, but I would think if Rosenstein knew that Trump was just looking for a justification to get rid of Comey because he was trying to shut down the Russia investigation, then to the extent that it’s obstruction on the part of Trump, then Rosenstein himself would also be implicated. > [@](#): > > Plus, that’s just the Obstruction subset of Mueller’s charter, which I suspect is a tiny portion of the whole. I suspect that it’s not, at least as regards to Trump. But I don’t see what difference that makes in any event. It’s probably the entire portion as regards to Rosenstein … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3840 "2018-04-13T18:22:03Z")
The morbid irony here is that in the opinion of many, Rosey’s letter had merit and grounds. Comey had to say Hillary wasn’t prosecutable, because she wasn’t. His additional stern lecture to Hillary about security and responsibility wasn’t his call to make, he was out of bounds. > [@](#): > > …if Rosenstein knew that Trump was just looking for a justification to get rid of Comey … How would you prove that? And if the grounds were valid, albeit needlessly harsh, wouldn’t he be obligated to comply? Did he say anything that he didn’t actually believe? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3841 "2018-04-13T18:31:30Z")
Some of it probably depends on what Rosenstein was tasked with. If it looked like (at least arguably) a ‘what-if’ assignment, I wouldn’t see obstruction: Hey, Rod - assuming we’re going to fire Director Comey, can you write a memo justifying it? And of course you can probably write a memo to justify anything. Kind of like ‘indicting a ham sandwich’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=191) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=193)