# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 193
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3842 "2018-04-13T18:34:30Z")
I don’t get these various arguments. The point of an investigation is to determine whether these various speculations are correct. And you’re having a guy whose actions are part of that investigation overseeing it. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3843 "2018-04-13T18:41:56Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Rosenstein would have to be an idiot not to be prepared to be fired, whether he is or not. I don’t think this particularly tells us anything new. It tells us that publisher has approved the outline of his book 😃 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3844 "2018-04-13T18:44:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t get these various arguments. The point of an investigation is to determine whether these various speculations are correct. And you’re having a guy whose actions are part of that investigation overseeing it. Not if the dismissal of Comey was due to the Russia investigation (i.e. what Trump said on TV) rather than the Rosenstein memo (assuming Rosenstein wasn’t aware of the true motive at the time). If Rosenstein knew Trump’s true motive, but complied (“colluded”) anyway, then I’d agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3845 "2018-04-13T18:48:53Z")
CNN is reporting that Rosenstein has been consulting with DOJ ethics on this question all along, so the question is rather moot. Fox News rebuttal…yeah, DOJ ethics: they’re all part of the Deep State, even the ones appointed by Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3846 "2018-04-13T19:07:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not if the dismissal of Comey was due to the Russia investigation (i.e. what Trump said on TV) rather than the Rosenstein memo (assuming Rosenstein wasn’t aware of the true motive at the time). If Rosenstein knew Trump’s true motive, but complied (“colluded”) anyway, then I’d agree with you. Again, you’re responding with a couple of “if” statements. Which of these are correct would be subject to investigation. Rosenstein himself is overseeing that very investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3847 "2018-04-13T19:08:36Z")
I think I’m losing the thread of this entire dumpster fire of an administration. I can’t keep up. There’s a new name in the news every day that I’m supposed to know about. Broidy? Who the fuck is Broidy? And today Trump pardons Scooter Libby, a convicted perjurer from the 2000’s who is now a free man making a fine living with none of his rights being infringed upon because … nope … I have no idea what the hell’s going on anymore. They only shred of hope and/or joy is that everybody being dragged through the coals in the press is a Republican. Comey, Rosenstein, McCabe, Wray … all these deep state malcontents … all Republicans. The party is basically eating itself from the inside, which is fine by me. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3848 "2018-04-13T19:10:43Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > And today Trump pardons Scooter Libby, a convicted perjurer from the 2000’s who is now a free man making a fine living with none of his rights being infringed upon because … nope … I have no idea what the hell’s going on anymore. I wouldn’t be surprised if he did this in a fit of pique because he’s angry at Comey. (Comey had some involvement in the prosecution of Libby.) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3849 "2018-04-13T19:23:39Z")
Borowitz outdid himself today. > **[Amazon Apologizes for Shipping Ten Thousand Copies of Comey’s Book to White...](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/amazon-apologizes-for-shipping-ten-thousand-copies-of-comeys-book-to-white-house?mbid=nl_Borowitz%20041318&CNDID=45124985&spMailingID=13304615&spUserID=MTU4NjA2NjU5ODE0S0&spJobID=1381098045&spReportId=MTM4MTA5ODA0NQS2)** > > Sarah Huckabee Sanders called speculation that Trump had ordered the book “absurd,” adding, “The President does not order reading material.” ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3850 "2018-04-13T19:32:01Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Borowitz outdid himself today. > > [Amazon Apologizes for Shipping Ten Thousand Copies of Comey’s Book to White House | The New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/amazon-apologizes-for-shipping-ten-thousand-copies-of-comeys-book-to-white-house?mbid=nl_Borowitz%20041318&CNDID=45124985&spMailingID=13304615&spUserID=MTU4NjA2NjU5ODE0S0&spJobID=1381098045&spReportId=MTM4MTA5ODA0NQS2) Hilarious! :D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3851 "2018-04-13T19:39:58Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Borowitz outdid himself today. > > [Amazon Apologizes for Shipping Ten Thousand Copies of Comey’s Book to White House | The New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/amazon-apologizes-for-shipping-ten-thousand-copies-of-comeys-book-to-white-house?mbid=nl_Borowitz%20041318&CNDID=45124985&spMailingID=13304615&spUserID=MTU4NjA2NjU5ODE0S0&spJobID=1381098045&spReportId=MTM4MTA5ODA0NQS2) That’s pretty good. > [@](#): > > The White House press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, called any speculation that Trump had ordered Comey’s book “absurd,” adding, “The President does not order reading material.” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3852 "2018-04-13T19:51:21Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > That’s pretty good. How about ten thousand copies of [today’s _New York Daily News_](http://thehill.com/homenews/media/382965-ny-daily-news-cover-hits-trump-over-comey-book-revelations)? He can get the gist of that just looking at the front cover, looking at the picture and struggling his way through about two dozen words in large print. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3853 "2018-04-13T19:57:46Z")
New York state prosecutors are refusing Cohen’s lawyers’ request that they get a chance to look through everything that was seized in the raids and only give to prosecutors what they themselves decide is not covered by attorney-client privilege. > **[NY prosecutors blast Cohen request on seized evidence](https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/383071-ny-prosecutors-blast-cohen-request-on-seized-evidence/)** > > New York prosecutors on Friday excoriated President Trump’s personal attorney, Michael Cohen, over his request to screen information seized by FBI agents during Monday raids on his offic… ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3854 "2018-04-13T20:19:03Z")
Stupid Watergate continues: > [@New York Times](#): > > President Trump phoned his longtime confidant, Michael D. Cohen, to “check in” on Friday as lawyers for the two men went to court to block the Justice Department from reading seized documents related to Mr. Cohen’s decade of work for Mr. Trump, according to two people familiar with the call. > > It is not clear what else they discussed in a call that came days after a series of F.B.I. raids. Depending on what was said, the call could be problematic for both men, as defense lawyers often advise their clients not to talk to each other during investigations. Mr. Trump and Mr. Cohen still were trying to determine what exactly was seized. > > The raids were even broader than have been previously reported. Prosecutors said the raids were part of a monthslong investigation into Mr. Cohen. In addition to searching Mr. Cohen’s office and hotel room, prosecutors also obtained warrants to seize material from his cellphones, tablet, laptop and a safe deposit box, according to people briefed on the warrants. It’s always a good idea for co-conspirators to talk to each other while they’re under investigation. The Feds had a secret warrant for Cohen’s emails for months. I wonder if they had/have a tap on his phones as well. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3855 "2018-04-13T20:44:58Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > CNN is reporting that Rosenstein has been consulting with DOJ ethics on this question all along, so the question is rather moot. I’m not going to dispute this with DOJ ethics people, but it’s hard to understand. One part of that [article](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/13/politics/rod-rosenstein-ethics-recusal/index.html) seemed off as well. > [@CNN](#): > > Others have suggested that, at bottom, an obstruction investigation focuses on the President’s mindset, not Rosenstein’s, so his role in drafting the memo about Comey is inconsequential. > > “The dismissal itself is a matter of public record,” Georgetown Law Professor Marty Lederman wrote for the Just Security law blog. “And in light of Trump’s own admissions about his desire to put a crimp in the Russia inquiry, it’s not obvious that Mueller would have much to do in investigating that question other than to question Trump himself, something that apparently has not yet happened.” This doesn’t make sense to me at all. OK, so let’s say he doesn’t need Rosenstein to get Trump. But Mueller has indicted any number of people who are not Trump. So Rosenstein could himself be a target. Why would the only relevance of Rosenstein’s participation in Comey’s firing be the extent to which it relates to Trump’s culpability? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3856 "2018-04-13T21:47:18Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > New York state prosecutors are refusing Cohen’s lawyers’ request that they get a chance to look through everything that was seized in the raids and only give to prosecutors what they themselves decide is not covered by attorney-client privilege. > [http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/383071-ny-prosecutors-blast-cohen-request-on-seized-evidence](http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/383071-ny-prosecutors-blast-cohen-request-on-seized-evidence) Good, because it’s a stupid fucking “request” anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3857 "2018-04-13T21:52:37Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I think I’m losing the thread of this entire dumpster fire of an administration. **I can’t keep up**. There’s a new name in the news every day that I’m supposed to know about. … That’s the idea. Nobody can. It’s deliberate. The constant chaos is intentional. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3858 "2018-04-13T22:15:00Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > That’s the idea. Nobody can. It’s deliberate. The constant chaos is intentional. Exactly. It’s the same point as using a Gish Gallop in debate. It’s not meant to convince you. It’s mean to confuse you. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3859 "2018-04-13T22:23:43Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > So Rosenstein could himself be a target. Why would the only relevance of Rosenstein’s participation in Comey’s firing be the extent to which it relates to Trump’s culpability? You are making some silly assumptions here. “Rosenstein’s participation in Comey’s firing”—seriously, you’re asserting that Rosenstein conspired with Trump to fire Comey? That Rosenstein intended to obstruct the Russia investigation by firing Comey? These are the only circumstances in which it would make any sense for Rosenstein to “himself be a target.” If this is your theory, what is your surmise as to _any_ reason Rosenstein could have had for conspiring with Trump, or for attempting to impede the Russia investigation??? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3860 "2018-04-13T23:20:17Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > You are making some silly assumptions here. “Rosenstein’s participation in Comey’s firing”—seriously, you’re asserting that Rosenstein conspired with Trump to fire Comey? That Rosenstein intended to obstruct the Russia investigation by firing Comey? Don’t give Fox&Friends ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/3861 "2018-04-13T23:25:17Z")
Another part of Christopher Steele’s dossier appears to be confirmed. [Looks like Michael Cohen was in Prague in late September/early October 2016 after all](http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article208870264.html). I guess that picture of Michael’s passport was just another effort at misdirection. Would he do something like that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=192) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=194)