# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/381 "2017-11-01T19:21:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [I think a sitting president can be indicted.](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/22/us/politics/can-president-be-indicted-kenneth-starr-memo.html) > > Mueller is fully aware of the significance of indicting a sitting president. But he also is fully aware of the extent and seriousness of the crimes committed. He has spent his life trying to enforce the law, and I find it inconceivable that if the investigation shows that Donald is guilty of crimes, then he will not hesitate to prosecute. > > The Bannon wing of the GOP has been doing a victory dance prematurely. Sure, they’ll prevail in Alabama. They only have three classes of candidates there- far right, much righter, and batshit crazy extremist right. In private, Republicans are getting sick of this administration and I bet many would welcome its removal. That is something that has to be fully litigated through the judicial system - one which the GOP has been stacking in its favor a lot as of late. And in any case, if congress decides to shut down the investigation, there’s not much else that can be done at that point. It sounds crazy, but Trump could fire anyone in the government he doesn’t like and for virtually any reason. It’s up to congress to stop him. I don’t see congress doing that unless it is a democratic controlled congress, and even then, it would be a battle royale between the executive and legislative branches. We’ve entered the authoritarian age in American political history. I don’t think it ends with Trump, either. In fact, he might not be authoritarian enough for the real fascists in the party. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/382 "2017-11-01T19:21:30Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Some of the best proof that Mueller is a top-notch lawyer with a top-notch team is the quality of the legal writing in the unsealed briefs. It is excellent. I will probably use them for teaching purposes. Beyond that, the fact that everything was kept confidential until the proper time speaks well for Mueller’s ability to lead. He’s in total control. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/383 "2017-11-01T19:36:46Z")
I assume the left wing accolades for Mueller will continue even if he ultimately wraps up the inquiry with a few minor or unrelated charges and concludes that there’s no credible evidence of actual collusion. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/384 "2017-11-01T19:38:21Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Beyond that, the fact that everything was kept confidential until the proper time speaks well for Mueller’s ability to lead. He’s in total control. But-but-but, I heard on Fox News that the leak that there would be indictments on Monday was a criminal act! From the hysteria, possibly a crime more serious than anything Mueller is charging! Former US Attorney Chris Christy tut-tutted about it as well on CNN (but stopped short of calling it criminal (and I’m certain nothing ever leaked out of his operation)). ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/385 "2017-11-01T19:51:18Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > But-but-but, I heard on Fox News that the leak that there would be indictments on Monday was a criminal act! From the hysteria, possibly a crime more serious than anything Mueller is charging! > > Former US Attorney Chris Christy tut-tutted about it as well on CNN (but stopped short of calling it criminal (and I’m certain nothing ever leaked out of his operation)). Please don’t mention Chris Christie and things leaking out in the same sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/386 "2017-11-01T19:55:05Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > It’s all Jared’s fault: > > [http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/358248-vanity-fair-trump-blaming-kushner-for-mueller-investigation](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/358248-vanity-fair-trump-blaming-kushner-for-mueller-investigation) > > I guess he was so busy bringing peace to the Middle East along with all his other jobs that he didn’t have time to give good advice. Well, in Jared’s defense, I tried helping my professional painter father-in-law paint my daughter’s bedroom once, and he essentially called me an idiot too. Advice to the youngsters: Don’t work for your father-in-law. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/387 "2017-11-01T19:59:23Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I don’t know the details of either the theoretical rules or the actual procedures at the White House, but it seems to me that it would be difficult to make all those Very Important People[tm] surrender their cell phones during the workday (and, of course, a modern smartphone could function as a “wire”, especially if the wireee is provided with custom software designed to keep the recording/storage/transmission operations discreet). I have a family member who is very close but not quite Very Important People in this administration (he’s a policy guy . . .it’s a long story) and he has to surrender his cell phone every time he walks in the building. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/388 "2017-11-01T20:06:37Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Well, in Jared’s defense, I tried helping my professional painter father-in-law paint my daughter’s bedroom once, and he essentially called me an idiot too. Advice to the youngsters: Don’t work for your father-in-law. Bet he didn’t even pay you. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/389 "2017-11-01T20:06:39Z")
The CBS TV show “Madam Secretary” is about a fictional State Department, and they show them putting their cell phones in mini lockers as soon as they step off the elevator. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/390 "2017-11-01T20:16:57Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Well, in Jared’s defense, I tried helping my professional painter father-in-law paint my daughter’s bedroom once, and he essentially called me an idiot too. Advice to the youngsters: Don’t work for your father-in-law. Very good point. I help my FIL quite a bit and routinely feel like an incompetent boob. I mean, I am an incompetent boob but the level skyrockets around him. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/391 "2017-11-01T20:25:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I assume the left wing accolades for Mueller will continue even if he ultimately wraps up the inquiry with a few minor or unrelated charges and concludes that there’s no credible evidence of actual collusion. 🙂 I love the sound of whistling past the graveyard. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/392 "2017-11-01T20:45:56Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > It’s all Jared’s fault: > > [http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/358248-vanity-fair-trump-blaming-kushner-for-mueller-investigation](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/358248-vanity-fair-trump-blaming-kushner-for-mueller-investigation) > > I guess he was so busy bringing peace to the Middle East along with all his other jobs that he didn’t have time to give good advice. What’s that noise? “Bumpity bumpity bump” Whoops, another one under the bus. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/393 "2017-11-01T20:53:58Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > It’s all Jared’s fault: > > [http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/358248-vanity-fair-trump-blaming-kushner-for-mueller-investigation](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/358248-vanity-fair-trump-blaming-kushner-for-mueller-investigation) > > I guess he was so busy bringing peace to the Middle East along with all his other jobs that he didn’t have time to give good advice. “Jared is the worst political adviser in the White House in modern history,” Nunberg said. Well, yeah, that goes along with the worst White House in modern history. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/394 "2017-11-01T21:32:37Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > … I’m not yet convinced that Trump will be indicted, but I suspect that if he eventually is the path will go through Kushner, who has got to be pretty vulnerable for a number of reasons. OTOH Jared is less likely to flip easily on his father-in-law. I’m not so sure that Jared would keep his mouth shut. As others have mentioned, he doesn’t give the impression of being a ‘good soldier.’ If there are problems in the marriage, he might have no loyalty to the Trump family at all. And he knows a lot. He may not remember all he knows–no intellectual giant, he–but careful questioning could unearth a great deal of information damaging to Donnie. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/395 "2017-11-01T21:45:02Z")
Fascinating to read this thread and thanks to all for your insight and analysis. This side of the pond we have it pretty well reported but the nuances and implications of each move are not so well laid out. Anyhow, a few questions. clearly this game has a way to run but it is mentioned in an off-hand way that Trump could get rid of Mueller should this get a little too close to home. Now I wonder, can he really do that? can he\* practically\* do that? what would be the implications of doing so? What would happen to the investigation and the charges were someone else to pick up the reins? One throwaway observation of my own, I watched Tarantino’s “The Hateful Eight” at the weekend. A claustrophobic setting rife with lying, cheating, paranoia and mistrust. Double-crossing and self-serving malevolence. A film for our times I think. And finally, I have to give huge round of applause to **OttoDaFe** for the phrase “Cheeto-faced shitgibbon”, that is high quality indeed. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/396 "2017-11-01T23:14:01Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And finally, I have to give huge round of applause to **OttoDaFe** for the phrase “Cheeto-faced shitgibbon”, that is high quality indeed. You might already know this, if not you’ll be proud to know that the term ‘shitgibbon’ [originated](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2017/02/13/the_origin_of_the_trump_insult_shitgibbon_revealed.html) with British writer David Quantick twenty years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/397 "2017-11-01T23:18:11Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > You might already know this, if not you’ll be proud to know that the term ‘shitgibbon’ [originated](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2017/02/13/the_origin_of_the_trump_insult_shitgibbon_revealed.html) with British writer David Quantick twenty years ago. I did not know that but I’m familiar with his work and it is indeed a beautiful phrase. Still, I’m sure David himself will be delighted to see it used so perfectly in this thread. For me, he is President Shitgibbon from here on in. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/398 "2017-11-01T23:19:00Z")
The pic of [Kushner and the Orange Baby](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/president-trump-blames-son-in-law-jared-kushner-mueller-probe-article-1.3604438) halfway down the page is priceless. It was a 10 diaper day at the adult day care center. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/399 "2017-11-02T00:57:10Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Fascinating to read this thread and thanks to all for your insight and analysis. This side of the pond we have it pretty well reported but the nuances and implications of each move are not so well laid out. > > Anyhow, a few questions. clearly this game has a way to run but it is mentioned in an off-hand way that Trump could get rid of Mueller should this get a little too close to home. Now I wonder, can he really do that? can he\* practically\* do that? what would be the implications of doing so? What would happen to the investigation and the charges were someone else to pick up the reins? The President is theoretically entitled to fire a special prosecutor for cause. The political reality, though, is that it would ignite a shit-storm of controversy, even to the extent of stirring the Republicans in Congress to wake up and pay attention, and could lead to the start of impeachment proceedings. (The precedent cited is when Nixon did something similar in 1973, called the Saturday Night Massacre. He ordered his Attorney General to fire the Watergate special prosecutor. The AG resigned instead, as did his assistant. The next guy up did the dirty deed…but Nixon’s presidency was doomed from that point.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/400 "2017-11-02T01:07:19Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > The AG resigned instead, as did his assistant. The next guy up did the dirty deed…but Nixon’s presidency was doomed from that point.) (Emphasis added.) Bork, Bork, Bork. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=21)