# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 208
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4142 "2018-04-20T19:32:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Seems to me that if you are protected by civil service rules and a president had you fired, you could take it to court and win quite easily. Civil servants are insulated from politics. They can be fired, but I think it would be easy for a cabinet head to change their job assignment so that they had nothing to do. Nope, that last is not going to happen either. By the way, it’s a myth that civil servants cannot be fired. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4143 "2018-04-20T19:36:42Z")
While the Mueller investigation proceeds, the Democrats are filing a [lawsuit](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia/democrats-sue-russia-trump-campaign-for-alleged-2016-election-conspiracy-idUSKBN1HR2BE) against Russia and the Trump campaign, naming Don Jr and Kushner among others, for conspiracy to influence the 2016 election. This may be a distraction or a sideshow, and it may or may not accomplish anything, but it will keep the narrative in media as the midterms approach…and will make it harder for Trump to fire Mueller without seeming to add weight to their claims. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4144 "2018-04-20T19:39:26Z")
I’m all for Giuliani negotiating with the Mueller investigation, if it wound up with a) Trump resigning b) Trump in jail c) All of the above ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4145 "2018-04-20T20:08:54Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Nope, that last is not going to happen either. By the way, it’s a myth that civil servants cannot be fired. Civil servants can be fired, but there’s a process that must be followed and there must be cause and documentation. Details will vary with agency and department, but typically even a governor, say, can’t just demand a random employee be fired because he says so. If he tries, the Civil Service agency with jurisdiction over that employee will vehemently protest, as this would be a usurpation of their authority, which is usually established by legislative statute or rules of some kind. I was a state civil servant once upon a lifetime ago, and saw this type of disputes firsthand. The courts sided with Civil Service, since what their jurisdiction covered was spelled out. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4146 "2018-04-20T20:17:51Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I’m all for Giuliani negotiating with the Mueller investigation, if it wound up with > a) Trump resigning > b) Trump in jail > c) All of the above you forgot d) Impoverished. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4147 "2018-04-20T20:19:56Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > Civil servants can be fired, but there’s a process that must be followed and there must be cause and documentation. Details will vary with agency and department, but typically even a governor, say, can’t just demand a random employee be fired because he says so. If he tries, the Civil Service agency with jurisdiction over that employee will vehemently protest, as this would be a usurpation of their authority, which is usually established by legislative statute or rules of some kind. I was a state civil servant once upon a lifetime ago, and saw this type of disputes firsthand. The courts sided with Civil Service, since what their jurisdiction covered was spelled out. That is correct. At the federal level the [Merit Systems Protection Board](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Merit_Systems_Protection_Board) adjudicates appeals for civil servants who are disciplined or fired. A rank-and-file government employee can absolutely be terminated for cause, but they can not be legally terminated because the President doesn’t like them. The MSPB derives its authority from the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4148 "2018-04-20T20:25:58Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > :rolleyes: I agree with **friedo**. You and **Fotheringay-Phipps** are two posters I have on manual ignore (since I can’t actually put you on ignore). Your constant flipping out is exceedingly tiresome. Sometimes I accidentally read one of your posts and then immediately realize it’s you because of the characteristic nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4149 "2018-04-20T20:30:12Z")
Hey guys, careful poking at asahi, else he’ll come back in here and rub our noses in the fact that he’s the smartest person on these boards again. He’s never wrong and he says so himself. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4150 "2018-04-20T20:35:46Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > :rolleyes: So do you continue to assert that “every last employee of the US Marshal Service can be terminated by the President of the United States,” “no problem”? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4151 "2018-04-20T20:38:05Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I’m all for Giuliani negotiating with the Mueller investigation, if it wound up with > a) Trump resigning > b) Trump in jail > c) All of the above > [@k9bfriender](#): > > you forgot d) Impoverished. e) Giuliani himself ending up in hot water as a result, somehow. (A man can dream, no?) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4152 "2018-04-20T20:40:34Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4153 "2018-04-20T21:09:02Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So do you continue to assert that “every last employee of the US Marshal Service can be terminated by the President of the United States,” “no problem”? Realistically, of course he wouldn’t fire every last one, but he could create an environment in which it wouldn’t be very comfortable to cross him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4154 "2018-04-20T22:03:35Z")
Maybe his face will stick like that, and he won’t be able to post anymore unless he mounts his monitor on his ceiling. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4155 "2018-04-20T22:08:20Z")
😕 ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4156 "2018-04-21T00:15:55Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > It would be better if we had the good Rolleyes back: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=853348](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=853348) I agree and have duly posted in your constructive and useful thread. I suspect that some misguided individual thought it was harmful to the universe (or something) to let us genuinely express derision, and so left us with nothing but the happy blue person smiling at a happy thought that we see here :rolleyes:. But this is the Pit. If they want to keep the Happy Thinker for the other folders, fine. Here, we need the capacity to seriously roll those orbs. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4157 "2018-04-21T01:30:58Z")
Laugh if you want. You will see. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4158 "2018-04-21T01:36:46Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Realistically, of course he wouldn’t fire every last one, but he could create an environment in which it wouldn’t be very comfortable to cross him. So that would be a no? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4159 "2018-04-21T01:38:44Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So that would be a no? As I have prophetically said before, you will see. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4160 "2018-04-21T02:19:05Z")
Getting back to actual news, Wapo [reports](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/sessions-told-white-house-that-rosensteins-firing-could-prompt-his-departure-too/2018/04/20/911ca994-44c7-11e8-bba2-0976a82b05a2_story.html) that Jeff Sessions says he “could” resign if Rosenstein were fired. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4161 "2018-04-21T02:25:05Z")
Darn the luck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=207) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=209)