# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 211
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4202 "2018-04-25T01:34:26Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Wouldn’t that be a case of _ex post facto_? I’m pretty sure that’s un-Constitutional. So? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4203 "2018-04-25T12:23:34Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Sounds familiar. “No collusion, NO COLLUSION!!!”. And my lawyer won’t flip on me! Talking about how you’re worried one of your people is going to “flip” is something you’d hear from a mob boss in a bad movie. Now imagine Edward G. Robinson saying it. > [@SteveG1](#): > > “I can classify any old thing months after the fact, so it becomes a crime retroactively”. That’s how Fox maintains dudgeon among its faithful over Hillary’s e-mails. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4204 "2018-04-25T12:57:50Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4205 "2018-04-25T13:02:32Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Why on earth would he need anybody to give him that power? He already has the power to bring charges against anyone who is credibly accused of violating New York State law, regardless of whether or not the accused is also in jeopardy from Federal law. New York’s double jeopardy law currently prevents prosecuting someone under state law if they have been pardoned for federal crimes for the same act. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4206 "2018-04-25T13:41:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Talking about how you’re worried one of your people is going to “flip” is something you’d hear from a mob boss in a bad movie. Now imagine Edward G. Robinson saying it. Yeah. It’s interesting that no Trump defender is making the argument “I’m happy to have my lawyer cooperate because nothing he says could remotely be considered damaging.” Nope. Going straight to invoking _omertà_. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4207 "2018-04-25T13:48:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > …Now imagine Edward G. Robinson saying it… Grampa? Who’s “Edward G. Robinson”? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4208 "2018-04-25T14:11:16Z")
“Some old guy who was on TV when I was a kid” is the most likely response. The end of EGR’s heyday was 60+ years ago, after all. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4209 "2018-04-25T14:13:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Talking about how you’re worried one of your people is going to “flip” is something you’d hear from a mob boss in a bad movie. Now imagine Edward G. Robinson saying it. TRUMP: “I swear I didn’t eat the cookie. And besides, it didn’t taste very good anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4210 "2018-04-25T14:18:49Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The end of EGR’s heyday was 60+ years ago, after all. The stereotypical mob-boss voice, even today, is his, whether you know it or not. Or you mistake it for Chief Wiggum’s. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4211 "2018-04-25T20:07:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The stereotypical mob-boss voice, even today, is his, whether you know it or not. Or you mistake it for Chief Wiggum’s. “Where’s yer Messiah neeeoww, see?” ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4212 "2018-04-25T21:14:19Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > “Where’s yer Messiah neeeoww, see?” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/1c0z3G8SOhw/maxresdefault.jpg "Where's Your Messiah Now?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c0z3G8SOhw) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4213 "2018-04-26T06:45:14Z")
Cohen is taking the Fifth. Rachel Maddow played a clip of Trump saying that only mob bosses took the fifth. Snicker. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4214 "2018-04-26T07:15:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > “Where’s yer Messiah neeeoww, see?” “It’s curtains for you, Rocky! Curtains!” ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4215 "2018-04-26T13:27:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Cohen is taking the Fifth. Rachel Maddow played a clip of Trump saying that only mob bosses took the fifth. Snicker. Ah, so Cohen is the capo. If Trump did anything illegal, which he didn’t, it was because of fear for his own and his family’s safety that he did it. Mueller’s investigation, which is a witch hunt anyway, should offer Trump immunity for testifying against Capo Cohen. Jews make the best mob bosses! [/Poe’s law] ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4216 "2018-04-26T16:17:52Z")
Michael Cohen has been trying to keep the SDNY from reviewing the documents they took from his home and office, claiming that the majority of them are privileged because he was acting as Trump’s lawyer. The SDNY has been arguing that Cohen isn’t doing much, if any, real legal work, so the documents are not privileged. (My layperson’s paraphrase of the issue; lawyers please don’t jump my shit.) So, Trump went on Fox and Friends this morning and, in the middle of a bonkers interview, tried to distance himself from Cohen, claiming in part that Cohen only handled a “a tiny, tiny little fraction” of Trump’s overall legal work. Within hours, the SDNY had filed a request with the court to expedite the document review process. The request cited Trump’s statement on Fox and Friends as evidence that the documents they seized were unlikely to be privileged since Cohen only handled a “tiny little fraction” of Trump’s legal work. The request also cited similar statements by Sean Hannity. > **[Trump’s TV interview this morning is already being used to undermine him in...](https://www.vox.com/2018/4/26/17284898/trump-fox-and-friends-michael-cohen-court)** > > Federal prosecutors have already cited Trump’s statement about Michael Cohen in a court filing. So. The SDNY seized “millions” of documents that Cohen claimed were privileged. Trump and Hannity both rushed to claim that Cohen wasn’t really doing much legal work for them. They barely know the guy! SDNY says, “No privilege then, right?” Presumably Trump and Hannity are both now reloading and taking aim at their other foot. In related news: > [@The Hill](#): > > A Fox News poll released Wednesday reported that a majority of Americans believe that special counsel Robert Mueller will find that President Trump committed criminal or impeachable offenses. > > Fifty-six of respondents in the poll said they believed Mueller’s probe will find that Trump committed the offenses. And 67 percent say they believe it’s at least somewhat important that Mueller’s investigation continues. > > However, 71 percent said they think that Trump will fire Mueller before the probe is over. [http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/384925-fox-news-poll-majority-think-mueller-will-find-trump-committed](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/384925-fox-news-poll-majority-think-mueller-will-find-trump-committed) A majority of Americans think the President probably committed serious crimes and think that the President will try to obstruct justice. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4217 "2018-04-26T16:23:59Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > …So, Trump went on Fox and Friends this morning and, in the middle of a bonkers interview, tried to distance himself from Cohen, claiming in part that Cohen only handled a “a tiny, tiny little fraction” of Trump’s overall legal work. Within hours, the SDNY had filed a request with the court to expedite the document review process. The request cited Trump’s statement on Fox and Friends as evidence that the documents they seized were unlikely to be privileged since Cohen only handled a “tiny little fraction” of Trump’s legal work. The request also cited similar statements by Sean Hannity… Trump also admitted that the “tiny little fraction” that Cohen did on his behalf included representing him in the Stormy Daniels matter – which he had previously denied any involvement. So he managed to hit both feet with a single shot. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4218 "2018-04-26T16:42:41Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Cohen is taking the Fifth. Rachel Maddow played a clip of Trump saying that only mob bosses took the fifth. Snicker. > [@Bayard](#): > > So. The SDNY seized “millions” of documents that Cohen claimed were privileged. Trump and Hannity both rushed to claim that Cohen wasn’t really doing much legal work for them. They barely know the guy! SDNY says, “No privilege then, right?” Presumably Trump and Hannity are both now reloading and taking aim at their other foot. > [@jsc1953](#): > > Trump also admitted that the “tiny little fraction” that Cohen did on his behalf included representing him in the Stormy Daniels matter – which he had previously denied any involvement. So he managed to hit both feet with a single shot. I can’t stop laughing. This is hilarious.\* It seems that Trump is incapable of talking about his legal affairs without admitting something damaging. The average mob boss is a lot cleverer. I wonder if the end game for Trump will be to follow the strategy of [Vinny “The Chin” Gigante](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Gigante)and claim he was crazy all along. He sure seems to be providing a lot of evidence to back that up. \*Well, horrifying in its sheer incompetence as well. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4219 "2018-04-26T16:46:36Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I wonder if the end game for Trump will be to follow the strategy of [Vinny “The Chin” Gigante](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Gigante)and claim he was crazy all along. He sure seems to be providing a lot of evidence to back that up. Ha! I was thinking of that the other day too! He just needs to don a ratty bathrobe, and he’s there. I’ve also been thinking of him as Caligula lately. Soon he will nominate a horse to run the VA. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4220 "2018-04-26T16:47:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I can’t stop laughing. This is hilarious.\* It seems that Trump is incapable of talking about his legal affairs without admitting something damaging. I agree with this in general, but I don’t see why it’s true in this instance. Trump’s position is apparently that he didn’t know anything about the payoff. But it’s pretty obvious that Cohen was acting on his behalf and that Trump was the primary beneficiary of that payoff. So I don’t see any contradiction at all here. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4221 "2018-04-26T16:57:10Z")
There’s something else that happened yesterday that I thought was significant: [The Judges of the Federal District Court Acted to Appoint Geoffrey Berman as US Attorney for SDNY](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/nyregion/geoffrey-berman-us-attorney-manhattan.html) (New York Times). > [@](#): > > Exercising a seldom-used power, the judges of the Federal District Court in Manhattan voted unanimously on Wednesday to appoint Geoffrey S. Berman as the United States attorney for the Southern District of New York, according to a court statement. > > Mr. Berman was appointed interim United States attorney in January, and his 120-day term was due to expire next week. With no one yet nominated by President Trump for the Southern District position, the judges acted to fill it with Mr. Berman. The reason this matters is because Berman was one of Trump’s hand-picked, privately interviewed US attorney nominees then appointed by AG Jeff Sessions. But Berman recused himself from having any involvement with the Michael Cohen case. Before Trump had a chance to appoint a different interim US attorney prior to the 120-day expiration date – one that may have meddled more in the Cohen investigation – the judges acted to put the recused Berman in place unless/until Trump can get a new nominee confirmed by the Senate. I am not particularly a Berman fan, but during this critical period, the SDNY case against Cohen is safer for the action of the judges. And I doubt Berman will serve much past 2020 in any event. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=210) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=212)