# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 212
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4222 "2018-04-26T16:57:26Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I can’t stop laughing. This is hilarious.\* It seems that Trump is incapable of talking about his legal affairs without admitting something damaging. > > The average mob boss is a lot cleverer. I wonder if the end game for Trump will be to follow the strategy of [Vinny “The Chin” Gigante](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Gigante)and claim he was crazy all along. He sure seems to be providing a lot of evidence to back that up. > > \*Well, horrifying in its sheer incompetence as well. Yep. The idiot doesn’t remember what he has said from one day to the next. Who still supports this lunatic? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4223 "2018-04-26T17:06:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree with this in general, but I don’t see why it’s true in this instance. Trump’s position is apparently that he didn’t know anything about the payoff. But it’s pretty obvious that Cohen was acting on his behalf and that Trump was the primary beneficiary of that payoff. So I don’t see any contradiction at all here. Of course you don’t. But you’re a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4224 "2018-04-26T17:09:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Trump’s position is apparently that he didn’t know anything about the payoff. Looks like you missed the part about Trump now admitting to “a tiny little fraction”. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4225 "2018-04-26T17:16:52Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Michael Cohen has been trying to keep the SDNY from reviewing the documents they took from his home and office, claiming that the majority of them are privileged because he was acting as Trump’s lawyer. The SDNY has been arguing that Cohen isn’t doing much, if any, real legal work, so the documents are not privileged. (My layperson’s paraphrase of the issue; lawyers please don’t jump my shit.) So, Trump went on Fox and Friends this morning and, in the middle of a bonkers interview, tried to distance himself from Cohen, claiming in part that Cohen only handled a “a tiny, tiny little fraction” of Trump’s overall legal work. Within hours, the SDNY had filed a request with the court to expedite the document review process. The request cited Trump’s statement on Fox and Friends as evidence that the documents they seized were unlikely to be privileged since Cohen only handled a “tiny little fraction” of Trump’s legal work. The request also cited similar statements by Sean Hannity. Well, to be fair, Trump has fucked over enough people that even a tiny fraction of his legal work would be enough to keep Cohen busy full time. It’s kind of fascinating to look at it in productivity terms. A single man-hour of Trump’s time can require x man-hours of a lawyer’s time to obfuscate, deflect, deny, challenge, counter-sue, etc. I don’t know exactly what value x is, but I think it’s easily in the double digits. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4226 "2018-04-26T17:19:27Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Of course you don’t. But you’re a fucking idiot. Prostate acting up again? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Looks like you missed the part about Trump now admitting to “a tiny little fraction”. You need to see the quote in context (he said he had a zillion lawyers etc.) He wasn’t saying a tiny fraction of Cohen’s work was for him. He was saying a tiny fraction of his work was done by Cohen. Those are completely different things, and the first is what would be relevant to the privilege claim. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4227 "2018-04-26T18:18:32Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I’ve also been thinking of him as Caligula lately. Soon he will nominate a horse to run the VA. Well, he already nominated a horse’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4228 "2018-04-26T18:20:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You need to see the quote in context (he said he had a zillion lawyers etc.) Would you consider this context? > [@](#): > > He represents me like with this crazy Stormy Daniels deal, he represented me. And from what I see, he did absolutely nothing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4229 "2018-04-26T18:30:34Z")
You’re conflating two separate issues. There are (from what I’ve seen) two separate areas in which Trump is thought to have possibly undermined himself. [ol] [li]He admitted that Cohen represented him in the Stormy Daniels deal, while he earlier claimed that he didn’t know anything about that matter (at the time).[/li][li]He admitted that Cohen handled only a “tiny, tiny fraction” of his legal work, while his legal team’s position has been that there are serious attorney-client privilege issues at stake in the Cohen documents.[/li][/ol] These two matters are not logically connected. My response to the first was in post #4219. My response to the second was in post #4225. As above, I agree in general that Trump’s mouth is his own worst enemy, as in “I was just fighting back and they called it obstruction”, or in his comments about the Comey firing being related to Russia. But I’m not seeing it in this particular instance. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4230 "2018-04-26T18:35:40Z")
Trump sometimes seems like he has the mind of a 7-year-old child. Look, I confess, I remember being in grade school and telling a lie and telling another lie that contradicted my first one. But we, like, grow out of that eventually, right? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4231 "2018-04-26T18:38:45Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You’re conflating two separate issues. They aren’t separate. Deny away. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4232 "2018-04-26T18:39:31Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump sometimes seems like he has the mind of a 7-year-old child. Look, I confess, I remember being in grade school and telling a lie and telling another lie that contradicted my first one. But we, like, grow out of that eventually, right? Most people grow out of it because they hit the real world and need to deal with bosses and contemporaries and so on. Trump got started as a big mogul at a pretty early age, so he grew up surrounded by sycophants, and had assistants to deal with everyone else. As a result, his childlike tendency to act on his impulses has never been curbed, and his delusion that he knows everything about everything has not been checked. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4233 "2018-04-26T18:54:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Most people grow out of it because they hit the real world and need to deal with bosses and contemporaries and so on. Trump got started as a big mogul at a pretty early age, so he grew up surrounded by sycophants, and had assistants to deal with everyone else. As a result, his childlike tendency to act on his impulses has never been curbed, and his delusion that he knows everything about everything has not been checked. I think that’s quite astute and well put. Never having to answer to a boss or work his way up meant that he never had any reason to watch his mouth or his behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4234 "2018-04-26T19:29:05Z")
I think Trump’s statements on Cohen are not smoking gun evidence of being caught in lies red-handed, because there is way to read the statements (at least the ones that I’m familiar with) that could make them all true. However, they are confusing as all hell and need more explanation. It is plausible that he’s just making shit up… in fact, that’s the most likely reason for his statements. Therefore, Trump is (IMHO) setting himself up for endless depositions on these and any related matters. Good. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4235 "2018-04-26T19:36:54Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Most people grow out of it because they hit the real world and need to deal with bosses and contemporaries and so on. Trump got started as a big mogul at a pretty early age, so he grew up surrounded by sycophants, and had assistants to deal with everyone else. As a result, his childlike tendency to act on his impulses has never been curbed, and his delusion that he knows everything about everything has not been checked. did you just say bad things about your guy? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4236 "2018-04-26T19:44:36Z")
> [@simster](#): > > did you just say bad things about your guy? Some people are capable of seeing the world in a more nuanced manner than “my guy”, and some people are not. You are evidently in this latter group. (Another member of the latter group would be Trump himself :)) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4237 "2018-04-26T19:51:47Z")
So how is it that he’s your guy? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4238 "2018-04-26T20:00:53Z")
I don’t think much of you, but I think it’s unlikely that you’re a child molester. Are you “my guy”? I wouldn’t think so … ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4239 "2018-04-26T20:05:27Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree with this in general, but I don’t see why it’s true in this instance. Trump’s position is apparently that he didn’t know anything about the payoff. But it’s pretty obvious that Cohen was acting on his behalf and that Trump was the primary beneficiary of that payoff. So I don’t see any contradiction at all here. He didn’t say “He did me a solid”, or “He really was looking out for me”, or “I’ll admit that he did something that it would appear I’d benefit from.” He said “He represented me”, and the implication of that is quite clearly that it was with his knowledge and approval. Representation implies action by proxy, not secret favors by a friend. There is a tiny, 1-in-a-millionth chance that he misspoke and meant to say something else but simply used “Represent” in an unfortunate, inaccurate way. But nobody anywhere actually believes that. He was telling the truth, and is completely clueless about how something he’d think is innocuous, isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4240 "2018-04-26T20:12:42Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > He didn’t say “He did me a solid”, or “He really was looking out for me”, or “I’ll admit that he did something that it would appear I’d benefit from.” > > He said “He represented me”, and the implication of that is quite clearly that it was with his knowledge and approval. Representation implies action by proxy, not secret favors by a friend. It wasn’t a favor from a friend. It was his personal lawyer and all-purpose-fixit-and-bagman acting in that capacity. Just without his knowledge. [All that said, it would not surprise me at all if Trump is lying and that he knew about the payoff. The notion that Cohen would shell out $130K on his own strikes me as a bit weird, even considering the all-around weirdness that surrounds Trump. But if you can buy the initial claim - and you never know when it comes to these guys - then I don’t see Trump’s statement as undermining it.] ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4241 "2018-04-26T20:25:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t think much of you, but I think it’s unlikely that you’re a child molester. Are you “my guy”? I wouldn’t think so … Funny you use that term, because there’s some number of Americans who voted for “their guy” Trump as opposed to the [child molester.](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pizzagate-conspiracy/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=211) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=213)