# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 213
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4242 "2018-04-26T20:34:02Z")
Seems from here the main signal is that very little amongst the seized material would qualify as protected by attorney-client relationships. However, if it became necessary for Il Douche to say the exact opposite tomorrow, and assert that it is the truth as it ever was and ever will be…no prob. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4243 "2018-04-26T23:07:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Funny you use that term, because there’s some number of Americans who voted for “their guy” Trump as opposed to the [child molester.](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pizzagate-conspiracy/) And a near majority in Alabama who voted for a child molester over a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4244 "2018-04-26T23:09:30Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It wasn’t a favor from a friend. It was his personal lawyer and all-purpose-fixit-and-bagman acting in that capacity. Just without his knowledge. Trump _just fucking said_ Cohen represented him in the matter, as has already been shown to you. You’ll refuse to believe he’s scum even when he tells you himself, won’t you? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4245 "2018-04-27T00:04:01Z")
[Curiouser and curiouser](https://nypost.com/2018/04/26/feds-seized-more-than-a-dozen-of-michael-cohens-phones/)… > [@](#): > > Manhattan federal prosecutors seized as many as 16 cell phones when the FBI raided the home, office and hotel room of President Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen… Maybe he just has a really serious “Bejeweled” addiction… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4246 "2018-04-27T00:19:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It wasn’t a favor from a friend. It was his personal lawyer and all-purpose-fixit-and-bagman acting in that capacity. Just without his knowledge. If the president does ever go to trial, he will wish with all his might for a jury pool of **Fotheringays-Phipps** , whose definition of reasonable doubt is apparently looser than Michelle Duggar’s baby chute. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4247 "2018-04-27T01:13:41Z")
**Barmy** , you seemed smarter when you claimed to be a Libertarian, and Libertarians are idiots. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4248 "2018-04-27T01:28:37Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > **Barmy** , you seemed smarter when you claimed to be a Libertarian, and Libertarians are idiots. Who’s **Barmy**? (Aside from “We’s all a bit barmy, mate!”) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4249 "2018-04-27T01:44:22Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > If the president does ever go to trial, he will wish with all his might for a jury pool of **Fotheringays-Phipps** , whose definition of reasonable doubt is apparently looser than Michelle Duggar’s baby chute. _THERE’S_ the **V-T** we all know and love… 🙂 Just wondering if you had to look up Michelle Duggar’s name to compose that masterpiece. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4250 "2018-04-27T01:44:30Z")
I know there are threads telling me that, yes, innocent people should sometimes take the Fifth. But whom should I listen to? Lawyers? or the greatest president since Abe Lincoln? [In this clip Orange Leader suggests that innocent people do not assert their Fifth Amendment rights](https://youtu.be/azF0IpPVitw?t=421). Yet in another clip, he acts like a mobster and says Cohen would never “flip” on him. What gives? I know what you Trump-haters think, but are there any Republicans who care to answer? **C’hump**? **octopus**? **Hurricane**? **Starving**? **Silver Watchamacallit**? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4251 "2018-04-27T01:49:51Z")
It used to be that only scoundrels invoked the 5th, but that was before the Justice Dept was taken over by the Derp State and started persecuting Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4252 "2018-04-27T02:06:49Z")
Isn’t Cohen a Jew? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4253 "2018-04-27T02:26:19Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Who’s **Barmy**? He got his name from Cyril “Barmy” Fotheringay-Phipps in the Jeeves universe. He knows who I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4254 "2018-04-27T02:27:30Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > Isn’t Cohen a Jew? Why would you think that? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4255 "2018-04-27T02:55:00Z")
My favorite thing today was Michael Avenotti pointing out that Cohen’s attorneys claimed in court that he had only three clients: 1. Donald Trump 2. The Trump Organization 3. Sean Hannity That means that whatever role Cohen played in the 1.6 million dollar payout for Broidy’s mistress’ abortion - **Broidy** wasn’t the client (or else Cohen’s attorneys were covering something up). The client had to be one of the three named persons (two of whom are actually the same person). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4256 "2018-04-27T03:20:53Z")
I’m liking this. “In Warning to Trump, Senators Advance Bill to Protect Mueller” > **[In Warning to Trump, Senators Advance Bill to Protect Mueller (Published 2018)](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/us/politics/senate-mueller-protection-bill.html)** > > The Senate Judiciary Committee, on a bipartisan vote, advanced legislation that would allow special counsels like Robert S. Mueller III to appeal their firing. > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON — The Senate Judiciary Committee fired a political warning shot at the White House on Thursday, advancing on a bipartisan vote long-stalled legislation to allow special counsels such as Robert S. Mueller III to appeal their firing to a panel of judges and possibly be reinstated. > > Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, has stated unequivocally that he will not bring the bill to the Senate floor for a vote. But with four Republicans, including the committee’s chairman, Senator Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, joining Democrats to vote in favor of it, the measure sent a clear message to President Trump that there would be serious consequences to firing the special counsel. > … ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4257 "2018-04-27T04:09:33Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’m liking this. > > “In Warning to Trump, Senators Advance Bill to Protect Mueller” > [https://nyti.ms/2FkhJe7](https://nyti.ms/2FkhJe7) Meh, it won’t go anywhere. There is as much chance of this legislation being voted on as there was of the house’s 67th repeal of Obamacare becoming law. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4258 "2018-04-27T05:12:10Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > My favorite thing today was Michael Avenotti pointing out that Cohen’s attorneys claimed in court that he had only three clients: > > 1. Donald Trump > 2. The Trump Organization > 3. Sean Hannity > > That means that whatever role Cohen played in the 1.6 million dollar payout for Broidy’s mistress’ abortion - **Broidy** wasn’t the client (or else Cohen’s attorneys were covering something up). > The client had to be one of the three named persons (two of whom are actually the same person). I see an article from The Root saying this, but I can’t find the video and NPR seems to confirm that Broidy was listed as one of his clients. > **[Sean Hannity Is Also A Client Of Trump's Lawyer Michael Cohen](https://www.npr.org/2018/04/16/603013689/sean-hannity-is-also-a-client-of-trumps-lawyer-michael-cohen)** > > President Trump's attorney Michael Cohen was in federal court Monday in New York City. A federal judge ordered Cohen's attorney to identify another client as part of a battle of seized evidence. Can someone find a link to the video? I’d trust that Avenatti would know, but I’m somewhat suspicious that it was actually said. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4259 "2018-04-27T09:05:28Z")
Sage Rat - Avenatti made the claim on Morning Joe yesterday. I happened to catch it in passing. Here’s a link to the clip of Avenatti’s segment - [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF9-3JzdGXE) It’s ten minutes long. The part to which I’m referring begins at 4:00. Here’s a partial transcript/report from a RawStory article about it: > **[Attorney Michael Avenatti hints $1.6 million abortion payout was for Trump --...](https://www.rawstory.com/2018/04/attorney-michael-avenatti-hints-1-6-million-abortion-payout-trump-not-gop-donor/)** > > The lawyer for porn actress Stormy Daniels suggested that a $1.6 million hush money payoff to a Playboy model was actually made on behalf of President Donald Trump -- and not a Republican donor.Attorney Michael Avenatti appeared Thursday on MSNBC's... > [@Michael Avenatti](#): > > “So, Mika, you are familiar with the fact that a week ago, Judge (Kimba) Wood ordered Michael Cohen’s attorneys to disclose all of his clients for the last three years,” Avenatti said, “and there were three clients listed — three clients listed. Do you recall which three?” > > Brzezinski listed Trump, Fox News host Sean Hannity and Republican donor Elliott Broidy — but Avenatti said she was making the same mistake everyone else had. > > “No, no, no,” he said. “Mr. Trump, the Trump organization and Sean Hannity. Mr. Broidy was not disclosed in open court as one of Michael Cohen’s clients.” > > Co-host Joe Scarborough asked the attorney what that meant. > > “I think at some point we are going to find out, if in fact, the client in connection with the ($1.6 million) settlement was, in fact, Mr. Broidy. I’m going to leave it at that.” So maybe Avanatti is mistaken, but in the clip he clearly says that the only clients who could have made that 1.5 million dollar payments are the clients that were ordered disclosed in court. Either Cohen’s arrangement with Broidy was for his clients, Trump and/or Hannity, or Cohen disobeyed the judge. Reading more up on this today, I seem to see suggestions that while Broidy was mentioned in a filing, in open court, where Cohen was ordered to name his clients - he didn’t mention Broidy. He (or his attorneys) listed Trump, the Trump org and, after much whining and foot dragging, Hannity. Someone asked him on Twitter about Broidy being named in a filing: > And Avenatti replied: \*\* That’s not what was represented in court.\*\* So we’ll see. It sounds like Avenatti is saying that he knows that Broidy is not the client of record in that payoff and that Cohen is trying to play coy about that in his testimony to the court. And that he (Avenatti) seems confident doubling down on that. Interesting times. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4260 "2018-04-27T10:07:24Z")
I was not familiar with Avenatti until this blew up. He seems to operate incredibly well on this stage as a gadfly lawyer who knows the details. Is he well regarded in legal circles? I would assume that on legal message boards, his strategy choices are seen as good moves for his client and him. ?? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4261 "2018-04-27T10:32:40Z")
Avenatti’s Wikipedia page is pretty impressive. Some highlights: > [@](#): > > Avenatti has also served as lead counsel on a number of historically-large cases, including an April 2017 $454 million verdict after a jury trial in Federal Court in Los Angeles in a fraud case against Kimberly-Clark and Halyard Health,[28] an $80.5 million class-action settlement against Service Corporation International,[29] a $41 million jury verdict against KPMG,[30] and a $39 million malicious prosecution settlement.[31] In 2015, Avenatti prevailed against the National Football League following a two-week jury trial in Federal District Court in Dallas, Texas after cross-examining Jerry Jones at trial.[32][33] > … > Since 2010, Avenatti has raced as a driver in approximately 34 professional sports car races … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=212) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=214)