# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 221
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4402 "2018-05-03T20:10:28Z")
Rudy Giuliani: If Mueller goes after Ivanka, the whole country will rise up against him. [https://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Giuliani-If-Mueller-goes-after-Ivanka-Trump-the-12884977.php](https://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Giuliani-If-Mueller-goes-after-Ivanka-Trump-the-12884977.php) ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4403 "2018-05-03T20:21:23Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > Well, yes, of course. If you called it “The Trump Affair” it would lack a few degrees of specificity. there will now and forever more be clustertrumps 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4404 "2018-05-03T20:23:04Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Mueller, in the case against Manafort, filed today to receive 70 blank subpoenas. > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/politiCOHEN_/status/992130946953564160?s=19) What does that mean? Is that like a blank check where he can just fill in the amount he wants? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4405 "2018-05-03T20:25:08Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > What does that mean? Is that like a blank check where he can just fill in the amount he wants? IANAL, but it looks like trial prep to me. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4406 "2018-05-03T20:30:59Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Rudy Giuliani: If Mueller goes after Ivanka, the whole country will rise up against him. > [https://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Giuliani-If-Mueller-goes-after-Ivanka-Trump-the-12884977.php](https://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Giuliani-If-Mueller-goes-after-Ivanka-Trump-the-12884977.php) Quoting your cite: > [@](#): > > “Jared is a fine man, you know that. Men are disposable. But a fine woman like Ivanka? Come on,” he told Fox host Sean Hannity. And when he said “a fine woman”, he meant _fine_. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4407 "2018-05-03T20:43:56Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > Quoting your cite: > > And when he said “a fine woman”, he meant _fine_. The orange fingerprints agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4408 "2018-05-03T21:48:20Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Cohen’s lines were [tapped](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/feds-tapped-trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-s-phones-n871011) and at least one call between the White House and Cohen was intercepted during the time leading up to the Cohen raid. > > (On edit, it’s not clear when the call took place, merely that the tap was in place at that point. The call might have been after the raid.) NBC has issued a clarification that the phones weren’t tapped, but being monitored. So, that they have a log but were not listening. Sounds like a significant change to the original story: \* "EDITOR’S NOTE: Earlier today, NBC News reported that there was a wiretap on the phones of Michael Cohen, President Trump’s longtime personal attorney, citing two separate sources with knowledge of the legal proceedings involving Cohen. But three senior U.S. officials now dispute that, saying that the monitoring of Cohen’s phones was limited to a log of calls, known as a pen register, not a wiretap where investigators can actually listen to calls. NBC News has changed the headline and revised parts of the original article."\* ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4409 "2018-05-03T22:01:58Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > NBC has issued a clarification that the phones weren’t tapped, but being monitored. So, that they have a log but were not listening. Sounds like a significant change to the original story: > \* > "EDITOR’S NOTE: Earlier today, NBC News reported that there was a wiretap on the phones of Michael Cohen, President Trump’s longtime personal attorney, citing two separate sources with knowledge of the legal proceedings involving Cohen. > > But three senior U.S. officials now dispute that, saying that the monitoring of Cohen’s phones was limited to a log of calls, known as a pen register, not a wiretap where investigators can actually listen to calls. > > NBC News has changed the headline and revised parts of the original article."\* That’s a huge correction and reflects poorly on NBC News. But also, there is a lot of info that the type of surveillance they were doing can compile - including live looks at SMS messages as they go back and forth (a modern day “wiretap”, really). But no, no phone recordings sadly. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4410 "2018-05-04T14:09:01Z")
How much weight does all the stuff said outside court matter for any case against Trump? No one is under oath when they post on Twitter, go on TV, etc. Couldn’t they say that everything is just being said for entertainment? This can be broken down into two categories: 1. Stuff Trump says directly 2. Stuff Trump’s lawyers, spokespeople, friends, etc. say Like, does it matter at all to the court what Giuliani is saying on TV? Couldn’t Trump say none of it is true and that Giuliani was making everything up for entertainment value? ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4411 "2018-05-04T14:28:48Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > How much weight does all the stuff said outside court matter for any case against Trump? No one is under oath when they post on Twitter, go on TV, etc. Couldn’t they say that everything is just being said for entertainment? Statements that you make which are against your own interest are often admissible in later court proceedings. It’s probably not enough on its own to convict you or cause you to lose a civil suit, but try explaining to a jury that you tell a lot of lies for entertainment purposes and see what they think about how credible you are. In this case in particular, I’d be more worried that the statements would be used in discovery proceedings and as the basis for search warrants. Giuliani’s admission that Cohen was billing for legal services but wasn’t doing legal work for Trump is enormously significant as to what sort of attorney-client privilege may attach to Trump/Cohen communications, a subject which is currently being litigated. Also the statement that Trump reimbursed Cohen through structured retainer payments leads to various sorts of financial questions that I suspect a judge or magistrate would allow warrants or other investigation of based just on that public admission. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4412 "2018-05-04T15:25:56Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > That’s a huge correction and reflects poorly on NBC News. Nonsense, and we need to get over this. Everybody gets things wrong sometimes, especially fairly subtle distinctions like tapping vs. monitoring. Correcting the story when they find out they were wrong reflects _well_ on NBC news, and is what sets it apart from the likes of Fox, and for that matter the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4413 "2018-05-04T17:04:39Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Nonsense, and we need to get over this. Everybody gets things wrong sometimes, especially fairly subtle distinctions like tapping vs. monitoring. Correcting the story when they find out they were wrong reflects _well_ on NBC news, and is what sets it apart from the likes of Fox, and for that matter the GOP. Yes to this. A certain segment of our news consumers seems to have trouble with this concept. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4414 "2018-05-04T17:08:16Z")
I largely agree with the assessment of NBC. But where it’s an issue is where 1) there seems to be a tendency to get stories wrong in one particular direction, and 2) the retractions generally come only in the most egregiously erroneous cases. The impact impact of these two factors is a skewed presentation. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4415 "2018-05-04T17:13:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I largely agree with the assessment of NBC. But where it’s an issue is where 1) there seems to be a tendency to get stories wrong in one particular direction, and 2) the retractions generally come only in the most egregiously erroneous cases. The impact impact of these two factors is a skewed presentation. Unlike FoxNews that deliberately lies from the outset. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4416 "2018-05-04T17:21:49Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Rudy Giuliani: If Mueller goes after Ivanka, the whole country will rise up against him. > [https://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Giuliani-If-Mueller-goes-after-Ivanka-Trump-the-12884977.php](https://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Giuliani-If-Mueller-goes-after-Ivanka-Trump-the-12884977.php) Bullshit. There’s a reason we frown on nepotism, so that staff rise and fall on their own merits. If Ivanka did something wrong, she shouldn’t be treated differently than anyone else just because her daddy wants to date her. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4417 "2018-05-04T17:24:34Z")
A federal judge in Virginia went after Mueller, accusing him of exceeding his powers in the Manafort case > **[U.S. judge says Mueller should not have 'unfettered power' in Russia probe](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/u-s-judge-questions-special-counsels-powers-in-manafort-case-idUSKBN1I51WE)** > > A federal judge said Special Counsel Robert Mueller should not have "unfettered power" in probing ties between President Donald Trump's campaign and Russia, and accused Mueller of using criminal cases to pressure Trump's allies to turn against him. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4418 "2018-05-04T17:36:21Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I largely agree with the assessment of NBC. But where it’s an issue is where 1) there seems to be a tendency to get stories wrong in one particular direction, and 2) the retractions generally come only in the most egregiously erroneous cases. What would the “other direction” be for a story like this? CORRECTION: \*Earlier today, NBC News reported that there was definitely no monitoring of any kind done on the phones of Michael Cohen, President Trump’s longtime personal attorney, citing two separate sources with knowledge of the legal proceedings involving Cohen. But three senior U.S. officials now dispute that, saying that Cohen’s phones were monitored to obtain a log of calls, known as a pen register. It doesn’t matter, though, because Michael Cohen is a great guy who hasn’t done anything wrong, and the FBI is conducting a total witch hunt because lying leaker Comey wanted revenge over Crooked Hillary losing the election which, by the way, Donald Trump won in the biggest landslide anybody’s ever seen, and there was NO COLLUSION. NBC News has changed the headline and revised parts of the original article, and begs your forgiveness for the egregious error. \* ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4419 "2018-05-04T17:38:01Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > What would the “other direction” be for a story like this?\* I assume this is just an attempt to get your humor in. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4420 "2018-05-04T17:40:05Z")
Sure, but don’t let it prevent you from offering an example of what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4421 "2018-05-04T17:46:22Z")
IOW you genuinely thought that “get stories wrong in one direction” meant that any particular story is only wrong in one direction? Do you understand what the word “tendency” means? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=220) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=222)