# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 231
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4602 "2018-05-15T22:08:10Z")
::Nelson laugh:: ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4603 "2018-05-15T22:31:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [hijack]One of my proudest moments as a baker came when two of my friends held a combined graduation party, him for receiving his math Ph.D., and her for her JD. > > I baked two things for the party: for her, a torte, and for him, a pie.[/hijack] In keeping with your theme, I confess I was amused the other morning when I was driving to the coast on a little-used country route and spied a small sign: “Pie, 3.14 miles.” And there was. 🙂 > [@friedo](#): > > DC District Judge Amy Berman Jackson has [rejected](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000163-6599-d92c-a17f-eddde22f0001) Manafort’s argument that Mueller exceeded his prosecutorial authority in indicting Manafort. I viewed this as a pro forma motion, so not surprised at Judge Jackson’s ruling. I’m glad her ruling was written with such care, though. She clearly understood the political need to explain her reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4604 "2018-05-15T22:36:31Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I viewed this as a pro forma motion, so not surprised at Judge Jackson’s ruling. I’m glad her ruling was written with such care, though. She clearly understood the political need to explain her reasoning. Indeed; it was obvious he was going to do it after Jackson threw out his initial civil suit. I believe Manafort is trying essentially the same argument in the Eastern District of Virginia; I’m curious to see Judge Ellis’s reaction and whether or not he mentions this ruling as persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4605 "2018-05-15T22:59:09Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Indeed; it was obvious he was going to do it after Jackson threw out his initial civil suit. I believe Manafort is trying essentially the same argument in the Eastern District of Virginia; I’m curious to see Judge Ellis’s reaction and whether or not he mentions this ruling as persuasive. Me, too. A lot was made of Ellis’s “lecture” to the prosecution during the hearing, but I didn’t find that terribly indicative of how he will rule. Lots of judges like to beat up both sides in a case just to demonstrate they grasp both sides of an issue and wish to appear impartial. Unfortunately, I thought Ellis’s comments made it seem more like he’d prejudged Mueller’s intentions. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4606 "2018-05-15T23:56:17Z")
People went a little unjustifiably nuts over Ellis (A Reagan appointee! OMG! :eek: ) but his questions were perfectly reasonable, and AAUI he has a bit of a reputation as a bench curmudgeon. I have not found Manafort’s jurisdictional arguments to be in any way persuasive, and the most important part of Jackson’s ruling, which hasn’t gotten much analysis yet, is her point that even if Mueller’s appointment letter violated DOJ regulations (it didn’t) such regulations are purely managerial in nature and don’t actually create any rights or causes of action for the accused. IOW, as I said thirty thousand posts ago, Mueller is a duly-appointed federal prosecutor with all the powers and discretion of any other prosecutor, and the scope of his office is only limited by Rosenstein’s managerial discretion. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4607 "2018-05-16T17:37:37Z")
The Senate Judiciary committee’s (which would be hard to dismiss as being part of a Democratic conspiracy) statement [includes the sentence](https://www.thedailybeast.com/kremlin-used-nra-to-help-trump-in-2016-says-senate-intelligence-committee): “The committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association as a means of accessing and assisting Mr. Trump and his campaign.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4608 "2018-05-16T17:47:49Z")
“Suggests”, eh? Really sticking their necks out. 'Course, for them to even say _that_ much, they must have the weapon, the fingerprints, the video, and a signed affidavit from God Almighty countersigned by Gabriel. A miracle of anatomy, men who can shit without having guts. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4609 "2018-05-16T18:02:00Z")
Trump[disclosed a greater than 100K reimbursement to Cohen](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/us/politics/trump-financial-disclosure.html) in his new financial disclosures. Strangely, he plum forgot about that in last year’s disclosures. Unless he didn’t forget about it, and willfully omitted it. But, that seems impossible because it would be a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4610 "2018-05-16T18:32:20Z")
The Government Ethics Office has sent a memo to Rod Rosenstein pointing out that he might want to investigate Trump’s financial documents which included the line showing he paid Cohen back for the Stormy payment. > ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4611 "2018-05-16T18:37:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > A miracle of anatomy, men who can shit without having guts. Sometimes, amongst all the stuff you write that I just plum can’t figure out, you put out a gem that reaches levels of Shakespearean wit. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4612 "2018-05-16T19:45:24Z")
An now [a side note of total inanity](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-most-famous-pro-trump-artist-in-the-us-has-moved-into-his-mueller-phase/2018/05/15/6363a92e-552c-11e8-a551-5b648abe29ef_story.html): > [@](#): > > …The other day, we flew to Utah to watch [Jon] McNaughton put the finishing touches on his latest work, which he planned to release by the end of the week. Over the phone, he’d said only that the painting would be “Mueller-themed.”… > > In the work, which McNaughton had tentatively titled “Exposing the Truth,” Trump grabbed special counsel Robert S. Mueller III by the necktie, roughly pulling him close while Mueller shrank back in fear… ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4613 "2018-05-16T19:50:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Suggests”, eh? Really sticking their necks out. > > 'Course, for them to even say _that_ much, they must have the weapon, the fingerprints, the video, and a signed affidavit from God Almighty countersigned by Gabriel. A miracle of anatomy, men who can shit without having guts. Just think about this for a minute: the NRA has been exposed as a money-laundering front for Russian election meddling. And that accusation is coming from Republican senators. :eek: This is huge. If nothing else, think how it could embolden non-NRA-toadie candidates. “Unlike my opponent, I only accept campaign donations from Americans.” ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4614 "2018-05-16T20:17:23Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Just think about this for a minute: the NRA has been exposed as a money-laundering front for Russian election meddling. And that accusation is coming from Republican senators. > > :eek: > > This is huge. If nothing else, think how it could embolden non-NRA-toadie candidates. “Unlike my opponent, I only accept campaign donations from Americans.” Perhaps this will cause many NRA members to reconsider their membership in the organization. Or perhaps not. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4615 "2018-05-16T20:27:39Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > An now [a side note of total inanity](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-most-famous-pro-trump-artist-in-the-us-has-moved-into-his-mueller-phase/2018/05/15/6363a92e-552c-11e8-a551-5b648abe29ef_story.html): Isn’t that the guy who painted the ridiculous Obama portrait with all bad shit going on around him? ETA: [Yup](http://jonmcnaughton.com/litho-print-obamanation-10-x-15-oe/). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4616 "2018-05-16T20:30:42Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Perhaps this will cause many NRA members to reconsider their membership in the organization. > > Or perhaps not. Are you kidding? Any second now some asshole will say, and others will repeat, “Fuck that they aren’t commies anymore and I’d rather help a Russian than a liberal; at least Russians like guns!” ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4617 "2018-05-16T20:43:45Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Are you kidding? Yes, I was kidding. Pretty much nothing will cause NRA members to desert the organization. NRA members have accepted the NRA’s unhinged rhetoric and open racism, so what’s a little campaign finance shenanigans? As long as people (well, white people anyway) can have as many guns as they want, all is well. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4618 "2018-05-16T20:50:54Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The Senate Judiciary committee’s (which would be hard to dismiss as being part of a Democratic conspiracy) statement [includes the sentence](https://www.thedailybeast.com/kremlin-used-nra-to-help-trump-in-2016-says-senate-intelligence-committee): > > “The committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association as a means of accessing and assisting Mr. Trump and his campaign.” Your first sentence seems misinformed. The sentence you quote is apparently not from “\*The Senate Judiciary committee’s (which would be hard to dismiss as being part of a Democratic conspiracy) statement \*”, but rather from a Democratic minority report which criticized the majority as having failed to adequately investigate various angles, including this one. [Link](https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/b/3/b3e29bc4-8afd-4145-85d9-618dcad4a133/D069EF11DC3784A6D073B097E720572E.2018.05.15-transcript-release-findings-9-am.pdf), page 21. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4619 "2018-05-16T21:06:11Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > An now [a side note of total inanity](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-most-famous-pro-trump-artist-in-the-us-has-moved-into-his-mueller-phase/2018/05/15/6363a92e-552c-11e8-a551-5b648abe29ef_story.html): Look how much taller Dickhead Donnie\* is in that painting. How tall are those fellas in real life? \*(Yes, of course, Dickbleed Donnie has established that insulting nicknames for politicians is the honorable thing. He’s a real trailblazer. And a fucking liar.) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4620 "2018-05-16T21:13:25Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Look how much taller Dickhead Donnie\* is in that painting… Just thinkin’, the Venn diagram of Artists and Trumpists has got to look almost like two separate circles… (well, if we specify GOOD Artists, they might be two circles that bounce off each other, carom around the room, try to get close and ricochet away again). And I say that as an Art teacher. Even my Redneck Guns ‘n’ Camo students think he’s an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/4621 "2018-05-16T21:33:44Z")
Norman Lincoln Rockwell. (cryptic reference explained [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George\_Lincoln\_Rockwell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lincoln_Rockwell)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=230) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=232)