# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 256
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5102 "2018-06-12T22:31:55Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > That is kind of SOP, though. Manafort _is_ entitled to defend himself, and his defense is entitled to see what he is being attacked with. Surprise witnesses and unexpected evidence exist in Hollywood and on TV, real courts not so much. Apparently this particular type of disclosure is _not_ SOP, according to the judge herself: > [@](#): > > “While the government may be correct that **the law does not necessarily require the Court to order the requested disclosure** , the Court has broad discretion to resolve a motion for a bill of particulars after weighing the parties’ interests, and here, defendant is obliged to prepare for a complex trial …” [https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/12/mueller-unnamed-figures-manafort-638800](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/12/mueller-unnamed-figures-manafort-638800) A concern of the Mueller team is that > [@](#): > > … that list—once turned over—will effectively cabin the government’s case on the foreign-lobbying issue since prosecutors will be likely be unable to present evidence about businesses or people not on it. _ibid_ ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5103 "2018-06-13T02:47:47Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Tell me if I’m seeing this correctly: thump and his minis (I’m lookin’ at you, Rudy) are running around pre-emptively saying what they are or aren’t going to do when \\*, and what recourse the president might or might not have, or how they will react if Mueller does one thing or another… but I don’t see Mueller overtly throwing down any gauntlet. He and his tightly buttoned-up crew are going quietly about their task, behind closed doors, not leaking anything. I see thump tilting at hypothetical windmills located where he thinks there are going to be windmills, but the windmills are still being assembled at the windmill factory. Right now, he’s waving his dinky sword in the air. > > People are complaining that this investigation is taking too long, but the longer it takes and the larger Mueller’s silence looms, the crazier it makes thump and the dumber he reveals himself to be. Win-win. > \*Fill in the blank This investigation has not gone on very long at all, compared to other investigations. I think I listed them earlier upthread. What’s more, this investigation has already yielded indictments and guilty pleas. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5104 "2018-06-13T02:59:22Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Is this who y’all really want Mueller to be? Because I think I’d rather have him be truly, utterly impartial, methodically pursuing truth without any particular end in mind. He should be a prosecutor, not a political actor, and he should be aiming at uncovering truth and convicting criminals. He shouldn’t be trying to exact justice through the electoral process. I have to agree, as much as I despise this bunch. We had enough of the “political actor” bullshit from Comey and look what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5105 "2018-06-13T15:05:20Z")
Pass the popcorn: > [@](#): > > [Former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen likely to cooperate as his attorneys leave case, sources say](https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-cooperate-attorneys-leave-case/story?id=55861988) > > As attorneys for Michael Cohen rush to meet Judge Kimba Wood’s Friday deadline to complete a privilege review of over 3.7 million documents seized in the April 9 raids of Cohen’s New York properties and law office, a source representing this matter has disclosed to ABC News that the law firm handling the case for Cohen is not expected to represent him going forward… > > Cohen, now with no legal representation, is likely to cooperate with federal prosecutors in New York, sources said. This development, which is believed to be imminent, will likely hit the White House, family members, staffers and counsels hard… ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5106 "2018-06-13T15:30:29Z")
Trump tweetstorm in 10…9…8… ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5107 "2018-06-13T15:33:46Z")
Holy crap. If your own consigliere flips on you, you’re pretty fucked. Some reporter I follow in Twitter (sorry, can’t find it at the moment) said yesterday that Cohen was telling friends he expected to be arrested soon. Cohen denied that. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5108 "2018-06-13T15:41:14Z")
MSNBC reports that Mueller just requested 75 blank subpoenas in the Manafort trial. Not being a lawyer, I’m not sure what the significance of that is, but I’m guessing it’s bad news for Manafort and a whole lot of other people. > ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5109 "2018-06-13T16:05:48Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > MSNBC reports that Mueller just requested 75 blank subpoenas in the Manafort trial. Not being a lawyer, I’m not sure what the significance of that is, but I’m guessing it’s bad news for Manafort and a whole lot of other people. > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1006910424149889025?s=19) It’s pretty standard, you just get the pre-signed subpoenas from the court so you can get documents and witnesses to show up at the trial. You want to ask for as many as you could possibly use since otherwise you keep having to go back for more, and this isn’t an atypical number for a big white-collar case. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5110 "2018-06-14T02:11:33Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > It’s pretty standard, you just get the pre-signed subpoenas from the court so you can get documents and witnesses to show up at the trial. You want to ask for as many as you could possibly use since otherwise you keep having to go back for more, and this isn’t an atypical number for a big white-collar case. Dammit, there you go dashing my hopes with the facts again. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5111 "2018-06-14T02:15:37Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > MSNBC reports that Mueller just requested 75 blank subpoenas in the Manafort trial. Not being a lawyer, I’m not sure what the significance of that is, but I’m guessing it’s bad news for Manafort and a whole lot of other people. > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1006910424149889025?s=19) > [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > It’s pretty standard, you just get the pre-signed subpoenas from the court so you can get documents and witnesses to show up at the trial. You want to ask for as many as you could possibly use since otherwise you keep having to go back for more, and this isn’t an atypical number for a big white-collar case. Point made, but unless I’m mistaken, this is not the first time he’s requested a large number of blank subpoenas. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5112 "2018-06-14T02:22:35Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Point made, but unless I’m mistaken, this is not the first time he’s requested a large number of blank subpoenas. and I doubt it will be the last. ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5113 "2018-06-14T14:07:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Point made, but unless I’m mistaken, this is not the first time he’s requested a large number of blank subpoenas. Correct: Now being listed as 150 this week - “[Mueller requests 150 blank subpoenas in Manafort case](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/392063-mueller-requests-150-blank-subpoenas-in-manafort-case-in)” 70 around May 3rd - “[Robert Mueller requests 70 more blank subpoenas ahead of Manafort trial](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/paul-manafort-trump-russia-investigation-robert-mueller-blank-subpoenas-a8335571.html)” 35 on April 11th - “[Mueller Seeks Subpoenas for 35 Witnesses for Manafort Trial](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-11/mueller-seeks-subpoenas-for-35-witnesses-for-manafort-trial)” ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5114 "2018-06-14T16:57:51Z")
BTW, some law-talking guy posted before that they need to get two blank subpoenas for each potential witness - something like one copy for the court and one for the subpoenee. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5115 "2018-06-14T19:04:21Z")
New York has [sued](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/nyregion/trump-foundation-lawsuit-attorney-general.html) President Trump, plus Eric, Donald Jr., Ivanka, and the Trump Foundation for numerous counts of malfeasance related to the Foundation. > [@](#): > > The foundation was also used to curry political favor, the lawsuit asserts. During the 2016 race, the foundation became a virtual arm of Mr. Trump’s campaign, email traffic showed, with his campaign manager Corey Lewandowski directing its expenditures, even though such foundations are explicitly prohibited from political activities. This is very serious, and has the chance to easily snowball into something much, much bigger than white-collar NPO shenanigans. New York has [referred](https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/36-trump-foundation-lawsuit-referral-letters-irs-fec/0afe57fdd3466789a5f7/optimized/full.pdf#page=1) the matter to the IRS for investigation as well. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5116 "2018-06-14T19:35:43Z")
The matter was also referred to the Federal Election Commission, which may end up having more to do with Mueller’s investigation than anything else about the filing of the suit by NY AG Barbara Underwood against the Trump Foundation. Otherwise, I’m not seeing how this is the thread for posting about this filing. Nonetheless, I did think the filing of the suit was the best birthday present ever to Trump. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5117 "2018-06-14T22:24:32Z")
It’s more relevant because of the IRS referral; Trump’s foundation is all entwined with Cohen, the kids, and all sorts of financial irregularities that have a Nexus with Trump’s businesses and the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5118 "2018-06-14T22:33:23Z")
Any bets that Trump is on the phone with the IRS even as we speak? “Hey Kelly…the IRS—that’s a government thing, right? That means they work for me, right?” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5119 "2018-06-15T14:57:02Z")
Cohen indicates to family that he has [flipped](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/15/politics/michael-cohen-cooperation-federal-investigators/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5120 "2018-06-15T15:01:28Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Cohen indicates to family that he has [flipped](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/15/politics/michael-cohen-cooperation-federal-investigators/index.html). From the article: > [@](#): > > Cohen has expressed anger with the treatment he has gotten from the President, who has minimized his relationship with Cohen, and comments from the President’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani, the source said. The treatment has left him feeling isolated and more open to cooperating, the source said. You don’t say! ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/5121 "2018-06-15T15:14:56Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Cohen indicates to family that he has [flipped](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/15/politics/michael-cohen-cooperation-federal-investigators/index.html). Let’s not jump the gun here. He’s indicated to family that he’s willing to _talk_ about flipping. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=255) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=257)